Untapped Potential - T-Virus Infected Las Plagas

To go back to my conversation with Nite, How did Saddler, Salazar, and Mendez get different types OF the plaga? Not to mention the modified versions like El Gigante and Del Lago, or why the Chainsaw Ganados were so much tougher.

Moonknight67 wrote:

To go back to my conversation with Nite, How did Saddler, Salazar, and Mendez get different types OF the plaga? Not to mention the modified versions like El Gigante and Del Lago, or why the Chainsaw Ganados were so much tougher.

Master, and Control/Queen Plagas all exist naturally within the colonies. Therefore, they just had to find them. Kind of like catching Pokemon! It is like queen ants, soldier ants, and worker ants. El Gigante is I assume made with a modified version or maybe it just affects certain individuals like that naturally. Del Lago is the only fishlike Plaga creature so maybe that transformation was natural for that specie of animal. And the sacks over the chainsaw guys obviously gave them more protection.

NiteKrawler wrote:

Master, and Control/Queen Plagas all exist naturally within the colonies. Therefore, they just had to find them. Kind of like catching Pokemon! It is like queen ants, soldier ants, and worker ants. El Gigante is I assume made with a modified version or maybe it just affects certain individuals like that naturally. Del Lago is the only fishlike Plaga creature so maybe that transformation was natural for that specie of animal. And the sacks over the chainsaw guys obviously gave them more protection.

Oh, yeah, nothing says bulletproof like a potato sack on your head.

NiteKrawler wrote:

Moonknight67 wrote:

NiteKrawler wrote:

Flippy147 wrote:

Zombies, whatever the occurance, carry the virus and can spread it to others. And seeing as how they destroyed the City in the first place kind of gives them the right to be considered B.O.W.s.

No, it doesn't. They are not meant for combat. They are very uncontrollable. They become a virus themselves. You can't use them as weapons.

Nite has a point. B.O.W.s are the things like T-103 and the Lickers - genetically modified creatures (usually humans) who can be controlled are are used as weapons. The zombies of the earlier RE series were merely infected with the virus. I suppose they'd be.. victims?

However, the Ganados and Majini of 4 and 5 could definitely be considered B.O.W.s, because with the control plaga they could be easily manipulated into an army or anything else they were needed for.. Very efficient.

Yeah. The Ganados and Majini were BOWs. I'm not even sure if the lickers were though, because I think they may have been an accident too. They are just a super mutated zombie. Really though, even the hunters couldn't really be controlled so I don't even know why Umbrella was wasting their time with that nonsense. The creatures like Nemesis, Mr. X, the Ivans, etc. were the real BOWs.

Lickers were just mutated from zombies, kind of like V-Acts, and they weren't named by Umbrella scientists, they were named by some of the officers at RPD.

However, others like Hunters, Chimera, Cerberus, Neptune, etc., are BOWs. They aren't the desired BOWs that Umbrella, or rather Spencer was trying to create, which is something really powerful that could be controlled(TALOS pretty much being that, and it was controlled by the Red Queen). Most of the Tyrants could be programed with orders, Mr. X, Nemesis(which also had a parasite in it), etc, but those were also faulty, as seen in Outbreak File#2, the T-0400tp that had been reprogrammed to eliminate the Hunter R's in the area, then rebelled and killed it's master.

Anyway, the BOWs I mentioned earlier that were shown in the slideshow in the first game, are BOWs, as the slideshow was a BOW report.

Spike is right. That is what I have been trying to say.

Nite, weren't you saying that the lickers and some of the other creatures like the hunters WEREN'T B.O.W.s because they were mindless, uncontrollable beasts?

Moonknight67 wrote:

Nite, weren't you saying that the lickers and some of the other creatures like the hunters WEREN'T B.O.W.s because they were mindless, uncontrollable beasts?

No. I said lickers were not and zombies were not. And they aren't. Hunters are. Cerberus, Neptune, the Tyrant, the Chimeras, etc. all were. Personally, I think the Tyrant is the only one that could really be considered a weapon, but Umbrella made the others specifically as BOWs. The zombies and lickers were an accident. But if they call Cerberus a weapon, they may as well call zombies one too.

NiteKrawler wrote:

No. I said lickers were not and zombies were not. And they aren't. Hunters are. Cerberus, Neptune, the Tyrant, the Chimeras, etc. all were. Personally, I think the Tyrant is the only one that could really be considered a weapon, but Umbrella made the others specifically as BOWs. The zombies and lickers were an accident. But if they call Cerberus a weapon, they may as well call zombies one too.

I really think the Tyrants are the only real B.O.W.s made by Umbrella.
Whether Umbrella intended for the rest of them to be B.O.W.s is irrelevant in my opinion, as in my opinion B.O.W.s should be like any other real weapon used today, i.e. a gun, bomb, missile or something else. Definition - Controllable. a useable tool to kill another living thing. That's a weapon in my opinion.

In fact : The definition of weapon: "any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon."

An instrument must be a useable item, not a mindless beast. You wouldn't use a gun that fired randomly, or a sword that would randomly turn on you.

^ Agreed.

Let it be known that NiteKrawler agreed with me.

Moonknight67 wrote:

NiteKrawler wrote:

No. I said lickers were not and zombies were not. And they aren't. Hunters are. Cerberus, Neptune, the Tyrant, the Chimeras, etc. all were. Personally, I think the Tyrant is the only one that could really be considered a weapon, but Umbrella made the others specifically as BOWs. The zombies and lickers were an accident. But if they call Cerberus a weapon, they may as well call zombies one too.

I really think the Tyrants are the only real B.O.W.s made by Umbrella.
Whether Umbrella intended for the rest of them to be B.O.W.s is irrelevant in my opinion, as in my opinion B.O.W.s should be like any other real weapon used today, i.e. a gun, bomb, missile or something else. Definition - Controllable. a useable tool to kill another living thing. That's a weapon in my opinion.

In fact : The definition of weapon: "any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon."

An instrument must be a useable item, not a mindless beast. You wouldn't use a gun that fired randomly, or a sword that would randomly turn on you.

Cerberus weren't an accident, they were in the report about BOWs, remember from the REmake?

Aren't Hunters, Cerberus, Bandersnatches, and pretty much every enemy an "instrument or device for use in attack"?

Opinions aside, the fact is that all of the bio-weapons seen throughout the games are BOWs.

Spike991 wrote:

Cerberus weren't an accident, they were in the report about BOWs, remember from the REmake?

Aren't Hunters, Cerberus, Bandersnatches, and pretty much every enemy an "instrument or device for use in attack"?

Opinions aside, the fact is that all of the bio-weapons seen throughout the games are BOWs.

This is my point, what's the point of making these abominations, if they were not supposed to be used as weapons?
They have no other purpose.

Spike991 wrote:

Cerberus weren't an accident, they were in the report about BOWs, remember from the REmake?

Aren't Hunters, Cerberus, Bandersnatches, and pretty much every enemy an "instrument or device for use in attack"?

Opinions aside, the fact is that all of the bio-weapons seen throughout the games are BOWs.

In my opinion, the only B.O.W.s are the ones with controllability, ones that can be used with intent with absolutely no possibility of something going wrong. You wouldn't use a faulty gun, or a broken sword.

An "Instrument or device for use in attack" is an item which can be used as intended to cause harm to another. If it can't be contorolled, it's not really a weapon, in my opinion. Umbrella may have intended for Cerberii, Hunters, etc. to be B.O.W.s, but personally I think they failed in making any effective B.O.W.s until the Tyrant.

Moonknight67 wrote:

Spike991 wrote:

Cerberus weren't an accident, they were in the report about BOWs, remember from the REmake?

Aren't Hunters, Cerberus, Bandersnatches, and pretty much every enemy an "instrument or device for use in attack"?

Opinions aside, the fact is that all of the bio-weapons seen throughout the games are BOWs.

In my opinion, the only B.O.W.s are the ones with controllability, ones that can be used with intent with absolutely no possibility of something going wrong. You wouldn't use a faulty gun, or a broken sword.

An "Instrument or device for use in attack" is an item which can be used as intended to cause harm to another. If it can't be contorolled, it's not really a weapon, in my opinion. Umbrella may have intended for Cerberii, Hunters, etc. to be B.O.W.s, but personally I think they failed in making any effective B.O.W.s until the Tyrant.

Well then there is a flaw in your opinion, as no BOW is totally capable of being controlled. The Tyrants aren't even that perfect.

The Proto-Tyrant, the T-002, Thanatos, the T-091, Pluto, among others are Tyrants that weren't controllable. The T-0400tp from Outbreak File#2 is notorious for being programmed for one thing, then rebelling against it's master, as seen in the End Of The Road scenario.

Furthermore, the "Sweeper"(I believe that was the name), a Hunter that was seen in CVX, which was used with the robots that would spot you, then alert the Hunter to your position, allowing for a controlled attack.

Nemesis was basically a T-103, just like Mr.X, but with the Nemesis parasite, and that one was given orders(killing the STARS members), and even had the intelligence to speak(saying "STARS", among other growls), but even Nemesis was unstable.

Spike991 wrote:

Well then there is a flaw in your opinion, as no BOW is totally capable of being controlled. The Tyrants aren't even that perfect.

The Proto-Tyrant, the T-002, Thanatos, the T-091, Pluto, among others are Tyrants that weren't controllable. The T-0400tp from Outbreak File#2 is notorious for being programmed for one thing, then rebelling against it's master, as seen in the End Of The Road scenario.

Furthermore, the "Sweeper"(I believe that was the name), a Hunter that was seen in CVX, which was used with the robots that would spot you, then alert the Hunter to your position, allowing for a controlled attack.

Nemesis was basically a T-103, just like Mr.X, but with the Nemesis parasite, and that one was given orders(killing the STARS members), and even had the intelligence to speak(saying "STARS", among other growls), but even Nemesis was unstable.

I guess the "Sweeper" could count as an efficient way of making Hunters B.O.W.s, but they'd have to be used in combination, a Hunter on its own is far from an effective Bio-Weapon.

As for the Tyrants, no weapon is perfect, and some are bound to have flaws in their theory and implementation (guns may jam or break, missiles or rockets my go off-target or explode at wrong times), but as long as they can normally be used properly and controlled in a way to do what is intended of them, they can be considered weapons.

The Proto-Tyrant, and pretty much every Tyrant prior to the T-103 were more tests than actual weapons. Like the ancient Chinese using explosive powder to perfect the bomb, you must have prototypes to perfect the design of the Tyrant. They could all be considered, I suppose, B.O.W. Prototypes, but not until T-103 was the Tyrant truly a Bio-Organic Weapon. At least, not a controllable, effective one. Which is the only type I'd really consider a B.O.W.

I never said Cerberus was an accident. I know the BOW slideshow you are talking about perfectly. What I have been saying all along here is that the zombies are not BOWs. They were an accident. They are BOAs. Bio-Organic Accidents. Therefore, the lickers are as well.

Moonknight67 wrote:

Spike991 wrote:

Well then there is a flaw in your opinion, as no BOW is totally capable of being controlled. The Tyrants aren't even that perfect.

The Proto-Tyrant, the T-002, Thanatos, the T-091, Pluto, among others are Tyrants that weren't controllable. The T-0400tp from Outbreak File#2 is notorious for being programmed for one thing, then rebelling against it's master, as seen in the End Of The Road scenario.

Furthermore, the "Sweeper"(I believe that was the name), a Hunter that was seen in CVX, which was used with the robots that would spot you, then alert the Hunter to your position, allowing for a controlled attack.

Nemesis was basically a T-103, just like Mr.X, but with the Nemesis parasite, and that one was given orders(killing the STARS members), and even had the intelligence to speak(saying "STARS", among other growls), but even Nemesis was unstable.

I guess the "Sweeper" could count as an efficient way of making Hunters B.O.W.s, but they'd have to be used in combination, a Hunter on its own is far from an effective Bio-Weapon.

As for the Tyrants, no weapon is perfect, and some are bound to have flaws in their theory and implementation (guns may jam or break, missiles or rockets my go off-target or explode at wrong times), but as long as they can normally be used properly and controlled in a way to do what is intended of them, they can be considered weapons.

The Proto-Tyrant, and pretty much every Tyrant prior to the T-103 were more tests than actual weapons. Like the ancient Chinese using explosive powder to perfect the bomb, you must have prototypes to perfect the design of the Tyrant. They could all be considered, I suppose, B.O.W. Prototypes, but not until T-103 was the Tyrant truly a Bio-Organic Weapon. At least, not a controllable, effective one. Which is the only type I'd really consider a B.O.W.

That sounds a bit hypocritical, you are saying the Tyrant's flaws, it's lack of control for instance, is like how "no weapon is perfect", while the same could be used for a Hunter, or any other.

"Weapons are only so good in as much as you use them", I believe that was Carter from Outbreak File#2, regarding the T-0400tp used against the Hunter R's.

"but as long as they can normally be used properly and controlled in a way to do what is intended of them, they can be considered weapons", that one is your quote, well using a Hunter, or even zombies, much like what was seen in Degeneration in the Harvardville airport terminal, they were used properly in a terrorist attack, they did what was intended, and that could be considered a weapon.

BOW is not a term that is exclusive to the Tyrants.

@Nite, I know you have played the REmake, so I knew you got that referrence, but I am saying that Tyrants are not the only ones that can or should be labeled BOWs.

Even zombies, which are undeniably accidents, can be used as weapons.

Sure they can be used as weapons. But they aren't classified as BOWs by Umbrella because technically, they shouldn't exist. Also, you can really turn anything into a weapon. Chris Brown likes to use his fists against beautiful singers, Russel Crowe uses telephones as a "deadly weapon", and apparently Pat Benatar met some dude that liked to use sex as a weapon. This doesn't mean that hands, telephones, and sex are weapons though.

Spike991 wrote:

That sounds a bit hypocritical, you are saying the Tyrant's flaws, it's lack of control for instance, is like how "no weapon is perfect", while the same could be used for a Hunter, or any other.

"Weapons are only so good in as much as you use them", I believe that was Carter from Outbreak File#2, regarding the T-0400tp used against the Hunter R's.

"but as long as they can normally be used properly and controlled in a way to do what is intended of them, they can be considered weapons", that one is your quote, well using a Hunter, or even zombies, much like what was seen in Degeneration in the Harvardville airport terminal, they were used properly in a terrorist attack, they did what was intended, and that could be considered a weapon.

BOW is not a term that is exclusive to the Tyrants.

@Nite, I know you have played the REmake, so I knew you got that referrence, but I am saying that Tyrants are not the only ones that can or should be labeled BOWs.

Even zombies, which are undeniably accidents, can be used as weapons.

NiteKrawler wrote:

Sure they can be used as weapons. But they aren't classified as BOWs by Umbrella because technically, they shouldn't exist. Also, you can really turn anything into a weapon. Chris Brown likes to use his fists against beautiful singers, Russel Crowe uses telephones as a "deadly weapon", and apparently Pat Benatar met some dude that liked to use sex as a weapon. This doesn't mean that hands, telephones, and sex are weapons though.

I agree with NiteKrawler's last note, not anything that can be used to hurt someone or considered by one person to be a weapon IS in fact a weapon. I have a more specific definition of weapon, and in my opinion a Bio-Organic Weapon is a living biologically modified organism that is used as a tool to accomplish a means to cause harm or destruction. Lickers, Hunters (without the Sweepers) and the earlier Tyrant types weren't effective B.O.W.s, because they couldn't be used as tools. Tools are items used specifically to accomplish a purpose while doing nothing more or less. Zombies, or Lickers are more of a "point them in a direction and hope they don't turn around" type of thing. They can't really be used so much as set loose. But that's just my opinion.

Moonknight67 wrote:

Spike991 wrote:

That sounds a bit hypocritical, you are saying the Tyrant's flaws, it's lack of control for instance, is like how "no weapon is perfect", while the same could be used for a Hunter, or any other.

"Weapons are only so good in as much as you use them", I believe that was Carter from Outbreak File#2, regarding the T-0400tp used against the Hunter R's.

"but as long as they can normally be used properly and controlled in a way to do what is intended of them, they can be considered weapons", that one is your quote, well using a Hunter, or even zombies, much like what was seen in Degeneration in the Harvardville airport terminal, they were used properly in a terrorist attack, they did what was intended, and that could be considered a weapon.

BOW is not a term that is exclusive to the Tyrants.

@Nite, I know you have played the REmake, so I knew you got that referrence, but I am saying that Tyrants are not the only ones that can or should be labeled BOWs.

Even zombies, which are undeniably accidents, can be used as weapons.

NiteKrawler wrote:

Sure they can be used as weapons. But they aren't classified as BOWs by Umbrella because technically, they shouldn't exist. Also, you can really turn anything into a weapon. Chris Brown likes to use his fists against beautiful singers, Russel Crowe uses telephones as a "deadly weapon", and apparently Pat Benatar met some dude that liked to use sex as a weapon. This doesn't mean that hands, telephones, and sex are weapons though.

I agree with NiteKrawler's last note, not anything that can be used to hurt someone or considered by one person to be a weapon IS in fact a weapon. I have a more specific definition of weapon, and in my opinion a Bio-Organic Weapon is a living biologically modified organism that is used as a tool to accomplish a means to cause harm or destruction. Lickers, Hunters (without the Sweepers) and the earlier Tyrant types weren't effective B.O.W.s, because they couldn't be used as tools. Tools are items used specifically to accomplish a purpose while doing nothing more or less. Zombies, or Lickers are more of a "point them in a direction and hope they don't turn around" type of thing. They can't really be used so much as set loose. But that's just my opinion.

Anything can be used as a weapon. And well, we aren't talking about anything or everything, we are talking about other RE enemies, which are for some odd reason, being ommitted from the BOW label, when they are in fact, Bio-Organic Weapons.

Zombies are not weapons, but can be utilized as such, as I have used examples, and Degeneration is a prime example.

The only enemy that is a BOW, by your logic, is TALOS(Tyrant-Lethal Organic System), as it is the only one that could be controlled, which was by the Red Queen, and it was an effective weapon in how it could take damage as well as utilize weapons, such as a rocket launcher.

Aren't Hunters, Chimera, etc, "living biologically modified" organisms? They were made to be Bio-weapons. documents in RE0 go into details about how some of the enemies that you encounter in that particular game are or are not effective bio-weapons.

Let it be known that I am only talking about zombies and lickers here. I acknowledge pretty much everything else's status of being a BOW, because they were made for that specific purpose. Most of them just weren't the most effective weapons ever manufactured. I always felt bad for T-ALOS though. It was nearly perfect...It was a great weapon! I think if Umbrella wanted a freaking Bio-Organic Weapon, they should have just manufactured Chris Redfields and Jill Valentines...The world would be doomed lol.

NiteKrawler wrote:

Let it be known that I am only talking about zombies and lickers here. I acknowledge pretty much everything else's status of being a BOW, because they were made for that specific purpose. Most of them just weren't the most effective weapons ever manufactured. I always felt bad for T-ALOS though. It was nearly perfect...It was a great weapon! I think if Umbrella wanted a freaking Bio-Organic Weapon, they should have just manufactured Chris Redfields and Jill Valentines...The world would be doomed lol.

It is noted.

A good chunk of that post was directed at Moonknight.

Yes, I also felt bad for TALOS, as it was meant to be the real ultimate bioweapon, it was something being worked on, from the Prototype picked up at the mansion, up until 2003 when it was unleashed, and it was just killed...

I think it deserves a better appearance in an actual game, maybe in the same way of an RE5 boss, rather than a rail-shooter.

I found Sergei to kind of steal the show, in terms of the coolest mutation/creature. Even the Ivans were pretty cool.

Spike991 wrote:

It is noted.

A good chunk of that post was directed at Moonknight.

Yes, I also felt bad for TALOS, as it was meant to be the real ultimate bioweapon, it was something being worked on, from the Prototype picked up at the mansion, up until 2003 when it was unleashed, and it was just killed...

I think it deserves a better appearance in an actual game, maybe in the same way of an RE5 boss, rather than a rail-shooter.

I found Sergei to kind of steal the show, in terms of the coolest mutation/creature. Even the Ivans were pretty cool.

Maybe TALOS will have a revival in RE6?

As for the B.O.W. thing, i think we should just agree to disagree on that, as both of our opinions are so different on such a basic level that it's impossible for us to reconcile them.

Moonknight67 wrote:

Spike991 wrote:

It is noted.

A good chunk of that post was directed at Moonknight.

Yes, I also felt bad for TALOS, as it was meant to be the real ultimate bioweapon, it was something being worked on, from the Prototype picked up at the mansion, up until 2003 when it was unleashed, and it was just killed...

I think it deserves a better appearance in an actual game, maybe in the same way of an RE5 boss, rather than a rail-shooter.

I found Sergei to kind of steal the show, in terms of the coolest mutation/creature. Even the Ivans were pretty cool.

Maybe TALOS will have a revival in RE6?

As for the B.O.W. thing, i think we should just agree to disagree on that, as both of our opinions are so different on such a basic level that it's impossible for us to reconcile them.

Maybe, or maybe some new kind of TALOS, perhaps the data on the UMF013 could help back that up.

I don't think it is as simple as we have differing opinions. That would be like me saying you are not a user on this site, and that it is my opinion...well obviously you are, no matter whether I agree...

Those BOWs(or just enemies), are well...BOWs. It has nothing to do with how well they can be utilized, but that they can be, and that they were designed just for that purpose, that is a fact. There are definately tiers among the many different BOWs, with the Tyrants most of the time being at the top, they are the pinnacle of biological weaponry, but they are not the only ones.

Spike991 wrote:

Maybe, or maybe some new kind of TALOS, perhaps the data on the UMF013 could help back that up.

I don't think it is as simple as we have differing opinions. That would be like me saying you are not a user on this site, and that it is my opinion...well obviously you are, no matter whether I agree...

Those BOWs(or just enemies), are well...BOWs. It has nothing to do with how well they can be utilized, but that they can be, and that they were designed just for that purpose, that is a fact. There are definately tiers among the many different BOWs, with the Tyrants most of the time being at the top, they are the pinnacle of biological weaponry, but they are not the only ones.

And in my opinion they aren't weapons at all, any more than you could consider a lion or a tiger a weapon. Sure, with the right implementation you can use them to cause destruction, but they aren't weapons, merely wild creatures.

As I said, it's a difference of opinion, nothing more, nothing less.