My Helena Rant

As I said in RE 30 Day Challenge, I don't the RE girls, but Helena, just because of one big factor. Throughout all of Chapter 1 and Up until the end of Chapter 2, Helena wanted Leon to go to the Cathedral, when they get there, they have to open a secret passage to underground labs, even in the labs she doesn't even tell him.

And at the end of it all, what did Helena accomplish. Killing off a handful of survivors in the Cathedral, killing her own sister and confusing the fuck out of Leon (wasn't specifically her fault, but still). SO in other words nothing.

I might need to examine it more, but what did Helena actually show Leon, that her sister was kidnapped, that there was yet another hidden lab in a town. It makes no sense to me why Helena wanted Leon to go there. If anyone can explain it though, please go ahead. Otherwise, Helena is not too bad.

Yeah, that was pretty annoying. But at least she had a nice ass?

Honestly, I get tired of Leon's campaign after you get out of the city. But it kind of picks up again. The stuff in the chappel, like that annoying enemy that kills everyone, and the later part on the plane were cool.

I've only ran through the story once so my memory is a bit flakey.

Helena's original intention was to save her sister. I'm guessing she wanted to explain to Leon that her involvement in the outbreak was due to her sister being held captive by Simmons. I don't think she knew that her sister was infected. They was forced to kill Deborah which resulted in Helena explaining the situation.

I could be wrong. I plan to do another playthrough once the new difficulty comes out.

Spike991 wrote:

Yeah, that was pretty annoying. But at least she had a nice ass?

Honestly, I get tired of Leon's campaign after you get out of the city. But it kind of picks up again. The stuff in the chappel, like that annoying enemy that kills everyone, and the later part on the plane were cool.

I didn't like the catacombs section. It just doesn't gel right with the rest of the chapters. The shark fight on the waterfall was just silly.

Known_Hero wrote:

I've only ran through the story once so my memory is a bit flakey.

Helena's original intention was to save her sister. I'm guessing she wanted to explain to Leon that her involvement in the outbreak was due to her sister being held captive by Simmons. I don't think she knew that her sister was infected. They was forced to kill Deborah which resulted in Helena explaining the situation.

I could be wrong. I plan to do another playthrough once the new difficulty comes out.

Spike991 wrote:

Yeah, that was pretty annoying. But at least she had a nice ass?

Honestly, I get tired of Leon's campaign after you get out of the city. But it kind of picks up again. The stuff in the chappel, like that annoying enemy that kills everyone, and the later part on the plane were cool.

I didn't like the catacombs section. It just doesn't gel right with the rest of the chapters. The shark fight on the waterfall was just silly.

Agreed. Don't know how Leon could hold his breath so long, must have gills.

Known Hero made a lot of excellent points, if she told Leon from the getgo, he would have probably turned her in without her having a chance to explain what's going on. She needed to show him concrete proof that she wasn't lying.

I thought they wasted a perfectly good chance to have a old character return along side Leon. Instead they make a new character which don't bring anything to the story and is more boring than Sheva.

I honestly didn't feel anything for her, even when she lost her sister. Not that I disliked her, she was just an extremely boring character to me.

Teh Black Cat wrote:

I thought they wasted a perfectly good chance to have a old character return along side Leon. Instead they make a new character which don't bring anything to the story and is more boring than Sheva.

I honestly didn't feel anything for her, even when she lost her sister. Not that I disliked her, she was just an extremely boring character to me.

I've had this discussion before: people are opposed to new characters simply because they're new. What makes any of the old RE characters so special outside of nostalgia?

Chris is a typical square jawed hero
Jill is the sexy but tough sidekick
Leon is a rookie cop turned special agent who has a knack for survival
Claire is a distressed sister turned biochemist

That's it. No depth at all. The most interesting characters in this franchise are RE1 Wesker and Ada due of their underlying motives. They're the only two characters that can't be taken at face value.

Why do you think every new character has been rip to shreds by the RE community? It's because their flaws aren't masked by the nostalgia factor. Leon, Claire, Chris and Jill are "boring" as well. Let's stop pretending that they're not.

Known_Hero wrote:

Teh Black Cat wrote:

I thought they wasted a perfectly good chance to have a old character return along side Leon. Instead they make a new character which don't bring anything to the story and is more boring than Sheva.

I honestly didn't feel anything for her, even when she lost her sister. Not that I disliked her, she was just an extremely boring character to me.

I've had this discussion before: people are opposed to new characters simply because they're new. What makes any of the old RE characters so special outside of nostalgia?

Chris is a typical square jawed hero
Jill is the sexy but tough sidekick
Leon is a rookie cop turned special agent who has a knack for survival
Claire is a distressed sister turned biochemist

That's it. No depth at all. The most interesting characters in this franchise are RE1 Wesker and Ada due of their underlying motives. They're the only two characters that can't be taken at face value.

Why do you think every new character has been rip to shreds by the RE community? It's because their flaws aren't masked by the nostalgia factor. Leon, Claire, Chris and Jill are "boring" as well. Let's stop pretending that they're not.

Perhaps if I gotten to know Helena as well as the others. After playing so many games with the other characters you start to grow an attachment to them. You see all they've been through, sympathize with them, and start to have favorites.

However they had introduced new characters which I felt which wasn't as boring; Sheva, Piers, Jake, for example. I found them way more interesting than Helena so saying I dislike her simply because she's "new" is a false accusation. I would give her the fact we really only had a couple of hours to become familiar with the character, but so did Piers and he's now one of my top 5 favorite RE characters.

Known_Hero wrote:

I've had this discussion before: people are opposed to new characters simply because they're new. What makes any of the old RE characters so special outside of nostalgia?

Chris is a typical square jawed hero
Jill is the sexy but tough sidekick
Leon is a rookie cop turned special agent who has a knack for survival
Claire is a distressed sister turned biochemist

That's it. No depth at all. The most interesting characters in this franchise are RE1 Wesker and Ada due of their underlying motives. They're the only two characters that can't be taken at face value.

Why do you think every new character has been rip to shreds by the RE community? It's because their flaws aren't masked by the nostalgia factor. Leon, Claire, Chris and Jill are "boring" as well. Let's stop pretending that they're not.

The situation makes the man. Characters like Chris and Jill were involved with the Mansion Incident, as well as the Raccoon City and Rockfort Incidents, respectively. Their characters have had a chance to grow over time. And we've really been able to appreciate them, as characters from their roles in those games, getting to know them.

Same with Leon and Claire, surviving Raccoon, Rockfort, and mysterious, creepy European villages, etc. These characters aren't boring, Helena gets hate because she didn't win us over with her one game, because she was being a little secretive biatch.

Of course, as said before, it makes sense that she didn't tell Leon everything from the get-go, as she would have lost her leverage, and would've been vunerable to be taken into custody.

Chris and Claire, I always remembered reading how they had lost their parents. Don't know if that's true. But Chris, buy his 2nd game was a really great, interesting character, CVX. You could see the character that we knew from RE1, and from Files seen from other games, such as Jill's File in RE3. Also seen in UC. Showing Chris as a guy with some frustrations. He punched a fellow cop for spilling coffee on him for example. CVX was an awesome game, especially for showing Chris and Wesker, and they did a terrific job on each character, unlike RE5.

Jill is just sexy. But also the coolest female character in RE. Helena can't compete with that. The standards are already set. You can't expect Helena to come in after like a dozen RE games have been released and to win the fans over for having a nice ass. Not gonna happen. I thought she was ok though.

Unlike Sheva, I don't hate Helena, so if she makes a return, I wouldn't mind. And honestly, as much as I dislike Sheva and her annoying ass, seeing her make a cameo or something would be pretty funny.

Honestly, at this point I'm getting more bored at Chris/Jill/Leon because of them being there all the time.

My favorites mostly don't even consist of characters seen more than once.

COME ON MASS LETS GET A PETITION ON THE GO FOR GUN SURVIVOR 5!

chocotricks wrote:

COME ON MASS LETS GET A PETITION ON THE GO FOR GUN SURVIVOR 5!

Either that or Survivor Chronicles. I'm all up for anything tangible from my favorite spinoffs.

I see helena as one more woman that leon got to romance with. Seriously, wats the deal with every female character involved with leon seems to find romance or falls for his charm?

And Leon's campaign did not reveal much of the plot as of ada's involvement or simmon's except for helena's testimony that simmons was behind all the events. Except for the part where he finds "Happy birthday Ada" tape which could have made him ensure his suspicion that simmons was behind the events. So helena not having a big part in RE 6 should not be a surprise cuz neither did leon.

Spike991 wrote:

The situation makes the man. Characters like Chris and Jill were involved with the Mansion Incident, as well as the Raccoon City and Rockfort Incidents, respectively. Their characters have had a chance to grow over time.

Progress: Yes
Grow: No

They haven't grown at all. They're the same exact people now as they were back then. How exactly has Chris and Jill grown? What part of their personalities changed?

Spike991 wrote:

And we've really been able to appreciate them, as characters from their roles in those games, getting to know them.

The nostalgia factor

Spike991 wrote:

Same with Leon and Claire, surviving Raccoon, Rockfort, and mysterious, creepy European villages, etc. These characters aren't boring, Helena gets hate because she didn't win us over with her one game, because she was being a little secretive biatch.

And how exactly did Leon win people over? What part of Leon's personality is interesting? Take away the rookie cop angle and he's the exact same character as Chris. Remember: this guy is fresh out of the academy. He should've been fumbling around, making mistakes and in fear for his life. It would've made him more relatable. Instead Capcom chose to make him a carbon copy of Chris.


Take the movie Predator for example. A group of hardened, battle tested, seasoned soldiers fought against an highly advanced unknown lifeform in the middle of one of the worst jungles on the planet. The movie did a great job of portraying the progressing fear growing within the soldiers. One of favorite scenes in movie...

Billy "I'm afraid".

Soldier who's name I forget: "Bullshit, you're not afraid of any man"

Billy: "This ain't no man

Solider:

The toughest soldiers in the world were afraid. They were humanized.

Going back to RE: you never felt the sense of fear from any of these characters. It would've been cool if Claire had PTSD and went through stages of hallucination.

Soldiers in real life go through various personality changes after experiencing war. However, RE characters somehow are able to maintain a healthy mental state despite everything they've been through.

Boring

Spike991 wrote:

Chris and Claire, I always remembered reading how they had lost their parents. Don't know if that's true. But Chris, buy his 2nd game was a really great, interesting character, CVX. You could see the character that we knew from RE1, and from Files seen from other games, such as Jill's File in RE3. Also seen in UC. Showing Chris as a guy with some frustrations. He punched a fellow cop for spilling coffee on him for example. CVX was an awesome game, especially for showing Chris and Wesker, and they did a terrific job on each character, unlike RE5.

Boring. Everything about Chris and Jill is right off the assembly line. We've seen this before.

Spike991 wrote:

Jill is just sexy. But also the coolest female character in RE. Helena can't compete with that. The standards are already set. You can't expect Helena to come in after like a dozen RE games have been released and to win the fans over for having a nice ass. Not gonna happen. I thought she was ok though.

What makes Jill so cool? At least Helena had character development. With Jill, what you see is what you get.

Spike991 wrote:

--like Sheva, -- if she makes a return, I wouldn't mind. And honestly, as much as I --like Sheva and her -- ass, seeing her make a cameo or something would be pretty fun--

I agree

chrisredfield84 wrote:

I see helena as one more woman that leon got to romance with. Seriously, wats the deal with every female character involved with leon seems to find romance or falls for his charm?

I felt this way as well the first couple of chapters. However the further I got in the campaign, their friendship started to remind me a lot of Leon's and Claire's.

Mass Distraction wrote:

Honestly, at this point I'm getting more bored at Chris/Jill/Leon because of them being there all the time.

I concur. After seeing them in RE5, in addition to their two roles as partners in LIN and RER, another game with them teaming up again is overkill.

Known_Hero wrote:

Progress: Yes
Grow: No

They haven't grown at all. They're the same exact people now as they were back then. How exactly has Chris and Jill grown? What part of their personalities changed?

Progress: Yes
Grow: Yes, that too. To go from a few scared survivors trying to figure out a mystery in a mansion, to trying to eradicate BOWs and Umbrella. You can see the way Chris has evolved as a character. He was pretty mature in the REmake for sure, you get to see the more angry side, especially in CVX, RE5, muscles, in addition to his obsession with finding Jill, another character that we've seen grow in her own ways. In RE5, you see the way his team getting off'd by Carla affected him, and how he went to drinking. "Fill 'er up!", "Listen sweetheart, you're here to pour drinks and look pretty, so why don't you just shut your mouth". Honestly, who ever thought we'd see Chris saying stuff like that in an RE game?

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And how exactly did Leon win people over? What part of Leon's personality is interesting? Take away the rookie cop angle and he's the exact same character as Chris. Remember: this guy is fresh out of the academy. He should've been fumbling around, making mistakes and in fear for his life. It would've made him more relatable. Instead Capcom chose to make him a carbon copy of Chris.

Glad you decided to bash on Leon a bit, because he is another good example of character development. From a rookie cop, who nobody would even listen to, "Why doesn't anybody ever listen to me?!" After Ada ran off, and Claire ignored his plan on the radio, right after Ben got killed by G. To a cool, confident, and really sarcastic guy as seen in RE4. You'd have to be blind as a Licker or an old lady not to see the development there.

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Take the movie Predator for example.

Screw Predator. It's all about those Aliens!

Quote :

Going back to RE: you never felt the sense of fear from any of these characters. It would've been cool if Claire had PTSD and went through stages of hallucination.

Soldiers in real life go through various personality changes after experiencing war. However, RE characters somehow are able to maintain a healthy mental state despite everything they've been through.

Boring

Never felt the sense of fear? Because they weren't screaming like Ashley they weren't scared? What about when Joseph got killed, Jill was in genuine shock. "Joseph!" Although I'm mainly referring to the REmake.

When Jill encountered her first humanoid zombie, as well as a couple other times in RE1, all she could do was back up in fear. Not hop up on their shoulders and twist their neck, like she does in RE5. Again, another development is her skills that she's aquired from her experiences. You also see her make connections with character like Carlos, maybe a little bit of a flirty connection. And like Chris and Leon, and maybe Claire a bit, Jill wants to stop BOWs completely. That's why she is in the BSAA. You want to read about some legit character development, just go read the Files in RE5, the character Files you unlock. The Chris Redfield and Jill Valentine Files are good ones.

Quote :

What makes Jill so cool? At least Helena had character development. With Jill, what you see is what you get.

Jill is cute, sexy, cool, she has experience, and another thing that separates her from other female characters in the series is her martial arts skills, that show especially in her more recent games, like RE5 and RER. Again, something that developed over time, as this isn't the same Jill we see in RE1 or RE3.

What was Helena's development again? I forgot already. She was good looking, had a ncie ass and has the name of a My Chemical Romance song, that's all she had going for her I say.

Known_Hero wrote:

Spike991 wrote:

--like Sheva, -- if she makes a return, I wouldn't mind. And honestly, as much as I --like Sheva and her -- ass, seeing her make a cameo or something would be pretty fun--

I agree

Very cute, but Sheva can go eat some glass for all I care. I definately do not like her.

Spike991 wrote:

Progress: Yes
Grow: Yes, that too. To go from a few scared survivors trying to figure out a mystery in a mansion, to trying to eradicate BOWs and Umbrella. You can see the way Chris has evolved as a character. He was pretty mature in the REmake for sure, you get to see the more angry side, especially in CVX, RE5, muscles, in addition to his obsession with finding Jill, another character that we've seen grow in her own ways. In RE5, you see the way his team getting off'd by Carla affected him, and how he went to drinking. "Fill 'er up!", "Listen sweetheart, you're here to pour drinks and look pretty, so why don't you just shut your mouth". Honestly, who ever thought we'd see Chris saying stuff like that in an RE game?

Every assembly line hero goes through a stage of depression and anger followed by a training montage with memories of their rival haunting them as they eek out another rep on the bench press.



[quote="Spike991"]
Glad you decided to bash on Leon a bit, because he is another good example of character development. From a rookie cop, who nobody would even listen to, "Why doesn't anybody ever listen to me?!" After Ada ran off, and Claire ignored his plan on the radio, right after Ben got killed by G. To a cool, confident, and really sarcastic guy as seen in RE4. You'd have to be blind as a Licker or an old lady not to see the development there.[\quote]

Ehh, I'll give you this.


[quote="Spike991"]
Never felt the sense of fear? Because they weren't screaming like Ashley they weren't scared? What about when Joseph got killed, Jill was in genuine shock. "Joseph!" Although I'm mainly referring to the REmake.

When Jill encountered her first humanoid zombie, as well as a couple other times in RE1, all she could do was back up in fear. Not hop up on their shoulders and twist their neck, like she does in RE5. Again, another development is her skills that she's aquired from her experiences. You also see her make connections with character like Carlos, maybe a little bit of a flirty connection. And like Chris and Leon, and maybe Claire a bit, Jill wants to stop BOWs completely. That's why she is in the BSAA. You want to read about some legit character development, just go read the Files in RE5, the character Files you unlock. The Chris Redfield and Jill Valentine Files are good ones. [\quote]


All this "read the files" stuff is just a lazy way to develop characters. These things need to be shown ingame.

[quote="Spike991"]
Jill is cute, sexy, cool, she has experience,[\quote]

Just like Claire, Ada, Sherry, Sheva Helena. "Cool" is subjective but the rest easily applies to all of them.


[quote="Spike991"]
and another thing that separates her from other female characters in the series is her martial arts skills, that show especially in her more recent games, like RE5 and RER. Again, something that developed over time, as this isn't the same Jill we see in RE1 or RE3.[\quote]

I think you mean the ONLY thing that separates her from other female characters. Although, Ada is skilled in hand to hand combat(I believe) and Sheva is a knife expert.

Spike991 wrote:

What was Helena's development again?

Find the emblems and read the files. That's grade A character development: Capcom style



Listen, I don't mean to bash these characters. My point is that the classic characters aren't so special or unique once you remove the nostalgia factor.




EDIT: I don't feel like fixing this^

Teh Black Cat wrote:

chrisredfield84 wrote:

I see helena as one more woman that leon got to romance with. Seriously, wats the deal with every female character involved with leon seems to find romance or falls for his charm?

I felt this way as well the first couple of chapters. However the further I got in the campaign, their friendship started to remind me a lot of Leon's and Claire's.

Yeah, I thought there was some real chemistry between them, until the elevator ride when Helena said: "You've got feelings for her. (Ada)" One, that's a really bad line and it made me cringe, and two, it was like she was backing off from Leon, the rest of the game, she seemed useless to the development of the story.

Mercy wrote:

Teh Black Cat wrote:

chrisredfield84 wrote:

I see helena as one more woman that leon got to romance with. Seriously, wats the deal with every female character involved with leon seems to find romance or falls for his charm?

I felt this way as well the first couple of chapters. However the further I got in the campaign, their friendship started to remind me a lot of Leon's and Claire's.

Yeah, I thought there was some real chemistry between them, until the elevator ride when Helena said: "You've got feelings for her. (Ada)" One, that's a really bad line and it made me cringe, and two, it was like she was backing off from Leon, the rest of the game, she seemed useless to the development of the story.

Soon as Ada came into the picture, the whole "romance" feeling between the two was gone but I think the reason why she may have been "backing off" towards to end of it, was because she was just so set on getting revenge on Simmons and Leon was more hung up on Ada.

Teh Black Cat wrote:

Mercy wrote:

Teh Black Cat wrote:

chrisredfield84 wrote:

I see helena as one more woman that leon got to romance with. Seriously, wats the deal with every female character involved with leon seems to find romance or falls for his charm?

I felt this way as well the first couple of chapters. However the further I got in the campaign, their friendship started to remind me a lot of Leon's and Claire's.

Yeah, I thought there was some real chemistry between them, until the elevator ride when Helena said: "You've got feelings for her. (Ada)" One, that's a really bad line and it made me cringe, and two, it was like she was backing off from Leon, the rest of the game, she seemed useless to the development of the story.

Soon as Ada came into the picture, the whole "romance" feeling between the two was gone but I think the reason why she may have been "backing off" towards to end of it, was because she was just so set on getting revenge on Simmons and Leon was more hung up on Ada.

True, but I still feel that Leon and Helena had something going on when they were in the plane on their way to China. I guess Helena didn't really know about Ada and Leon's history.

I would like to clear some things about helena's involvement in RE 6.

Helena had a personal stake in RE 6. I don't think she led leon to cathedral to prove with evidence of simmons involvement but needed leon to find deborah. Finding deborah was her primary objective. Wat surprises me is leon did not ask why she did not reveal details of deborah in the first place. Cuz if deborah was rescued , she would not have a motive to stop simmons cuz she accomplished wat she wanted(save deborah). Also, wat proof did she have that simmons was behind it with jus her "word" for it. After hiding her personal quest , wat good is her "word" for? Ofcourse, it was apparent when simmons himself revealed his intentions over the phone(or communication device) to leon.

There are two questions whose answers might clear helena's involvement in RE 6.

1)When helena was held captive with deborah by simmons and deborah was taken away, Why did simmons let helena get away when he could have turned her into a B.O.W too? I would assume ada would have helped helena's escape but helena claimed she did not know ada after watching "happy birthday ada" tape. May be ada secretly helped her escape. I am still playing through ada's campaign so may be i would get to know if she was involved with helena.

2)Wat were helena and leon confronting the president in the first place when helena had her personal quest planned right from the beginning? Why did not leon question helena lieing to hunninghan when she claimed leon had a lead in the situation in the cathedral when she herself could have testified about cathedral to hunninghan and ofcourse hunninghan would have guided them.

May be the serpent emblems could reveal the answers to my questions. But answering these questions would prove helena's involvement more than jus a side-kick to leon or another love interest of leon.

And before someone spoils it for me , I would gladly take my leave from this thread.Merry christmas everyone.

Mercy wrote:

True, but I still feel that Leon and Helena had something going on when they were in the plane on their way to China. I guess Helena didn't really know about Ada and Leon's history.

Yeah, I felt it too in that scene. Especially when he said something like "You're starting to grow on me". Also, the other scene in the sewer? (I believe) where she fell on him, and there was this moment they just stared at each other. Think I'm remembering it right. However after they got to China, I didn't feel that "spark" anymore.

chrisredfield84 wrote:

I would like to clear some things about helena's involvement in RE 6.

Helena had a personal stake in RE 6. I don't think she led leon to cathedral to prove with evidence of simmons involvement but needed leon to find deborah. Finding deborah was her primary objective. Wat surprises me is leon did not ask why she did not reveal details of deborah in the first place. Cuz if deborah was rescued , she would not have a motive to stop simmons cuz she accomplished wat she wanted(save deborah). Also, wat proof did she have that simmons was behind it with jus her "word" for it. After hiding her personal quest , wat good is her "word" for? Ofcourse, it was apparent when simmons himself revealed his intentions over the phone(or communication device) to leon.

There are two questions whose answers might clear helena's involvement in RE 6.

2)Wat were helena and leon confronting the president in the first place when helena had her personal quest planned right from the beginning? Why did not leon question helena lieing to hunninghan when she claimed leon had a lead in the situation in the cathedral when she herself could have testified about cathedral to hunninghan and ofcourse hunninghan would have guided them.

May be the serpent emblems could reveal the answers to my questions. But answering these questions would prove helena's involvement more than jus a side-kick to leon or another love interest of leon.

And before someone spoils it for me , I would gladly take my leave from this thread.Merry christmas everyone.

I thought all of this as well, and honestly I strongly believe they'll come out with some DLC which takes place before Leon's campaign to answer all these questions. To me it seems like Leon and Helena met way before confronting the president. I mean why else would Leon just trust her if he JUST met her then and there, and even confessed that it was HER fault. Doesn't make sense.

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1)When helena was held captive with deborah by simmons and deborah was taken away, Why did simmons let helena get away when he could have turned her into a B.O.W too? I would assume ada would have helped helena's escape but helena claimed she did not know ada after watching "happy birthday ada" tape. May be ada secretly helped her escape. I am still playing through ada's campaign so may be i would get to know if she was involved with helena.

Wasn't the whole reason he held Deborah captive was to get Helena to breach the Presidents security? Which was why she was stating it was her fault.. although it wasn't really, she just wanted to save her sister.

OMFG quote fail...honey, you're post is a hot freakin' mess...guess I can work with it.

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Every assembly line hero goes through a stage of depression and anger followed by a training montage with memories of their rival haunting them as they eek out another rep on the bench press.

Jill didn't. And you can't ignore the way Chris had developed either. We've seen him change throughout the games. Even from RE1 to CVX, and CVX to RE5. You get to read about him in the Files too. Chris isn't as cookie cutter as you're making him out to be. Neither is Jill. Especially not at current time, with a good handful of games under each of their belts, there's plenty of change to see.

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All this "read the files" stuff is just a lazy way to develop characters. These things need to be shown ingame.

Spike991 wrote:

What was Helena's development again?

Known_Hero wrote:

Find the emblems and read the files. That's grade A character development: Capcom style

You don't say?

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Just like Claire, Ada, Sherry, Sheva Helena. "Cool" is subjective but the rest easily applies to all of them.

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I think you mean the ONLY thing that separates her from other female characters. Although, Ada is skilled in hand to hand combat(I believe) and Sheva is a knife expert.

Okay, well you can at least see the way Jill has honed her fighting skills over time, from just a survivor with lock picking skills, to some actual martial arts knowledge. You see it in her reverse roundhouse kicks and all that. I don't remember which style, but somebody here had named it spot on. More so than Ada's flashy style, like slow motion cartwheels and shit. You can definately see the way Chris and Jill have each developed their bodies and fighting skills and are so much more proficient at their job now in the BSAA, then when they were first encountering BOWs as STARS members. Hell, you can even see the way Claire's fighting skills have evolved, especially if you play The Mercenaries 3D(hereby referred to as Mercs3D). You can see the punches and kicks she can dish out to those ganados/majini, training that she clearly recieved from her brother, Chris.

And Chris' determination in the series is unmatched. His motivation, like avenging his fallen "comrades", the STARS, like wearing his other STARS uniform in CVX, after the STARS were no more. And another thing that separates Jill, how about her skimpy outfit from RE3? Jill has always been Capcoms hot girl in the games, more so than Ada or Claire or anybody.

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Listen, I don't mean to bash these characters. My point is that the classic characters aren't so special or unique once you remove the nostalgia factor.

Oh but they are. I mean they have their respect due to the fact that they've been there since the beginning, sure, can't deny the nostalgia factor, but these aren't empty characters that have just gotten by, they are characters that existed then, and developed over the course of the handful of games that they've been in. Don't forget the Wesker/Chris fued, and anger and hate between those two, Helena ain't got shit on that. Jill and her risque outfits, the cleavage, Helena can't touch that. I guess you digged the Leon bit. I really can't say much for Claire, though I'd still consider her one of the 4 main protagonists, she's just been outta the picture for so long. But you can at least see the way her character has matured, from biker chick with cut-off shorts to a mature woman, especially seen in Degen. You could even see the way she took the lead in CVX, with Steve. And she's always thinking of someone else, usually a younger person, a brat like lil Sherry, Rawni, Steve, etc, etc.

Known_Hero wrote:

EDIT: I don't feel like fixing this^

You don't say?

chrisredfield84 wrote:

Helena had a personal stake in RE 6. I don't think she led leon to cathedral to prove with evidence of simmons involvement but needed leon to find deborah. Finding deborah was her primary objective. Wat surprises me is leon did not ask why she did not reveal details of deborah in the first place. Cuz if deborah was rescued , she would not have a motive to stop simmons cuz she accomplished wat she wanted(save deborah). Also, wat proof did she have that simmons was behind it with jus her "word" for it. After hiding her personal quest , wat good is her "word" for? Ofcourse, it was apparent when simmons himself revealed his intentions over the phone(or communication device) to leon.

I agree. Leon did kinda go out on a limb, but he's always been a fool for those ladies you know? *cough* Ada *cough*

I'm really not going to jump in this discussion although it's entertaining to follow. I'd like to comment on one part, though.

Known_Hero wrote:

It would've been cool if Claire had PTSD and went through stages of hallucination.

Something like in RE4 Beta?

Quote :

Soldiers in real life go through various personality changes after experiencing war. However, RE characters somehow are able to maintain a healthy mental state despite everything they've been through.

Boring

I'm sure they have went through PTSD or something behind the scenes. Chris clearly suffered from this in Viral Campaign and he did go on a 6 month drinking spree after his team got killed in Edonia. I do wonder why Chris is the only person actually shown to have these problems.

Spike991 wrote:

Jill didn't. And you can't ignore the way Chris had developed either. We've seen him change throughout the games. Even from RE1 to CVX, and CVX to RE5. You get to read about him in the Files too. Chris isn't as cookie cutter as you're making him out to be. Neither is Jill. Especially not at current time, with a good handful of games under each of their belts, there's plenty of change to see.

So many games but so little ingame development.

Spike991 wrote:

Okay, well you can at least see the way Jill has honed her fighting skills over time, from just a survivor with lock picking skills, to some actual martial arts knowledge.

Wait a minute, Jill wasn't a ordinary civilian. She was a member of an elite law enforcement unit. I'm sure she trained in basic hand to hand combat in the academy. So, the flips and kicks in RE5 wasn't a big leap in character personality.

Spike991 wrote:

Hell, you can even see the way Claire's fighting skills have evolved, especially if you play The Mercenaries 3D(hereby referred to as Mercs3D). You can see the punches and kicks she can dish out to those ganados/majini, training that she clearly recieved from her brother, Chris.

Mercs3DS is not canon. That's like giving Kirby credit for his kickboxing skills in Super Smash Brothers

Spike991 wrote:

And Chris' determination in the series is unmatched. His motivation, like avenging his fallen "comrades", the STARS, like wearing his other STARS uniform in CVX, after the STARS were no more. And another thing that separates Jill, how about her skimpy outfit from RE3? Jill has always been Capcoms hot girl in the games, more so than Ada or Claire or anybody.

Chris: Again, typical hero stuff. Every hero has a best friend, team, girlfriend, and/or parents that were murdered by a rival figure.

Jill: Actually, I hated her re3 outfit. It didn't fit her personality. Another example of capcom's generic character handling.

Spike991 wrote:

Oh but they are. I mean they have their respect due to the fact that they've been there since the beginning, sure, can't deny the nostalgia factor, but these aren't empty characters that have just gotten by, they are characters that existed then, and developed over the course of the handful of games that they've been in. Don't forget the Wesker/Chris fued, and anger and hate between those two, Helena ain't got shit on that. Jill and her risque outfits, the cleavage, Helena can't touch that. I guess you digged the Leon bit. I really can't say much for Claire, though I'd still consider her one of the 4 main protagonists, she's just been outta the picture for so long. But you can at least see the way her character has matured, from biker chick with cut-off shorts to a mature woman, especially seen in Degen. You could even see the way she took the lead in CVX, with Steve. And she's always thinking of someone else, usually a younger person, a brat like lil Sherry, Rawni, Steve, etc, etc.

How many times do I have to say this: Every hero has a rival!!!! The feud between Chris and Wesker isn't unique.

I can't believe you're using Jill's skimpy outfit as a positive.

In reference to Claire: Come on, Steve was a pansy. She had to take charge.



@Mass Distraction

Behind the scenes doesn't count.

Chris' drinking binge is a generic way to add depth to his character. Let's say he never lost his team, how else would he have change?

Take Rick from the Walking Dead as an example. He went from a morally driven character to a borderline ruthless authoritative leader. His personality is forever changed. He's never going back to his old ways. Chris lost his team, had a couple drinks, yelled a few times, watched Piers sacrifice himself, became inspired, and is now back to the Chris of old. He's the same guy!!! Nothing has changed in his personality. He's now sober and ready to kick some ass. Just like RE1 Chris.