The God Delusion

I am currently in the middle of reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and it is an absolutely great read. I think this book is something everyone should read, religious and secular alike. It has definitely reinforced my atheistic beliefs in a great way. Dawkins is a pure genius. I recommend it to anyone and everyone.

NiteKrawler wrote:

I am currently in the middle of reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and it is an absolutely great read. I think this book is something everyone should read, religious and secular alike. It has definitely reinforced my atheistic beliefs in a great way. Dawkins is a pure genius. I recommend it to anyone and everyone.

Ummmm, I thought you were on vacation, buddy?

I just got back yesterday n00b.

I heard a lot of great things about that book, is it a recent book?

God exists. Perhaps hes not what is depicted in any religious sacred books or churches, but it would be the height of human arrogance to believe without question, that there is no superior entity to us. That in itself is a belief, which is as ridiculous as any of the whackjob religious nuts combined.

What if I am a superior entity.

00biohazard wrote:

God exists. Perhaps hes not what is depicted in any religious sacred books or churches, but it would be the height of human arrogance to believe without question, that there is no superior entity to us. That in itself is a belief, which is as ridiculous as any of the whackjob religious nuts combined.

The book was published in 2006 I believe. And Dawkins nor I believe 100% that God or some type of God does not exist. It cannot be proven. What we can do though, is look at statistical improbability and once we do that, we can safely say that God almost certainly does not exist. And for you to say simply that God exists is the same thing as saying he does not, which you lamented in your post. If you believe he exists, show us the evidence. But you can't. Also, God cannot exist in his Judaic/Christian form anyway. They believe that God is both omnipotent and omniscient. Those two ideals are completely incompatible. It is logically impossible for that to be true. If he is omnipotent, he can do anything. Anything. If he is omniscient, he know everything past, present and future. But if he knows exactly what is going to happen, he can't change it from happening. And if he can't change it from happening, he is not omnipotent. So, pick one.

NiteKrawler wrote:

00biohazard wrote:

God exists. Perhaps hes not what is depicted in any religious sacred books or churches, but it would be the height of human arrogance to believe without question, that there is no superior entity to us. That in itself is a belief, which is as ridiculous as any of the whackjob religious nuts combined.

The book was published in 2006 I believe. And Dawkins nor I believe 100% that God or some type of God does not exist. It cannot be proven. What we can do though, is look at statistical improbability and once we do that, we can safely say that God almost certainly does not exist. And for you to say simply that God exists is the same thing as saying he does not, which you lamented in your post. If you believe he exists, show us the evidence. But you can't. Also, God cannot exist in his Judaic/Christian form anyway. They believe that God is both omnipotent and omniscient. Those two ideals are completely incompatible. It is logically impossible for that to be true. If he is omnipotent, he can do anything. Anything. If he is omniscient, he know everything past, present and future. But if he knows exactly what is going to happen, he can't change it from happening. And if he can't change it from happening, he is not omnipotent. So, pick one.

There are just some things that we will not comprehend, that we will not understand. There are somethings that our petty human science cannot even possibly begin to understand. And i think the entity that ties us all together and makes this crazy place called earth have some sort of purpose or even if it is a random mash up of lifeforms. I can´t give you evidence god exists, Im not as wise or all knowing to give you that, but I also cannot believe scientists and their ´theories´. God is something we will never understand, and I dont believe it is a being. I believe that god lives in us, is around us, and is the drive that gives life compatibility between ourselves. I think god thrives with love, and hurts with hate, because we thrive with love and hurt with hate. I know this sounds way too metaphysical, I can´t make sense of it in a scientific way, but i think you cant provide rationalization and proof to a thing as abstract and infinite as god. I mean with scientific theory and exploration we barely have technology exploring mars for christ sake. Science is too arrogant. We will never understand it. My honest opinion anyway. I haven´t read the book your talking about so I dare not debate you on it either.

The "god" you are describing is basically the Einsteinian God. It is what many scientists, including Dawkins, refer to as God. But your logic of science not being able to explain everything will fail you in the sense that yes, science cannot explain everything. But, and this is very important, science has more and more evidence and truth piling up every day. The problem with theists is that they try to find things that science cannot yet explain and they instantly say "Science can't explain this! God is the only other possible answer!" And that is a terrible thing. Without science, we would not have the cures to horrible diseases, we wouldn't know anything about Earth or the cosmos, etc. In the end, religion is merely dangerous, obsolete, and so improbable that it is sad.

NiteKrawler wrote:

The "god" you are describing is basically the Einsteinian God. It is what many scientists, including Dawkins, refer to as God. But your logic of science not being able to explain everything will fail you in the sense that yes, science cannot explain everything. But, and this is very important, science has more and more evidence and truth piling up every day. The problem with theists is that they try to find things that science cannot yet explain and they instantly say "Science can't explain this! God is the only other possible answer!" And that is a terrible thing. Without science, we would not have the cures to horrible diseases, we wouldn't know anything about Earth or the cosmos, etc. In the end, religion is merely dangerous, obsolete, and so improbable that it is sad.

Your absolutley right, science has given us wonderful things, and I think you misunderstand me when I say that science does not have the answer to everything, and it never could. I don´t assume that whatever we cannot explain is God´s doing, in fact, I´m against that. But sometimes, we kid ourselves in believing that if science can´t prove it, it doesn´t exist. There are somethings that science will never comprehend, period. I dont deny that science will evolve more and more each day, and go on to discover even more things, but that just proves the faulty scientific theories are sometimes.

There was a time when we thought the earth was round. But thats a whole different debate altogether. God is too complex and infinite to begin to comprehend, and I´m fine with that. But it´s just the height of human arrogance to assume that god doesn´t exist. That is a belief in itself. And as you said, that goes both ways, assuming that there is a god is exactly the same. But that´s my belief. Except that I accept that I could be wrong, and scientific facts and atheists tend to go down the same route as crazy churches telling people what to believe. Thats just my humble opinion.

Wait, isn't there a rule about religious arguments on this forum?

Sargent D wrote:

Wait, isn't there a rule about religious arguments on this forum?

I´m not debating, I´m merely giving an opinion. In no way am I debating, nor have we fallen into insults. I´m neither a butthurt religious person nor scientific fact person.

What kind of blasphemous rule would disallow religious argumentation?

Anyway, I don't want to generalize here, but it is much much much more common to find religious people who "know" 100% that God exists. Virtually any scientist will accept that they cannot prove he does not exist. To me (and Dawkins), atheism is the idea that God may exist, but it just just as probable that fairies live at the bottom of gardens.

Doesn't Tom Cruise worship aliens?

Spike991 wrote:

Doesn't Tom Cruise worship aliens?

No, no no no...he worships a guy's story about aliens...even more stupid

PAULSAMSON wrote:

Spike991 wrote:

Doesn't Tom Cruise worship aliens?

No, no no no...he worships a guy's story about aliens...even more stupid

Yeah, he's definately into some risky business.

I see what you did there

Well I don't want to get too into this debate myself...but my own opinion does lean a little bit more towards Nite's...just sayin'.

'God' image, I think, was both to control and distract.

I don't believe in god, but it certainly made Amish people happy, truthfull
humble and sincere.

All you need is a little happy, and you don't need god.

@Paul and Spike, I think you mean he believes in Scientology.

THE UNIVERSE IS TOO MASSIVE AND CONFUSING FOR MANKIND TO EVER FULLY UNDERSTAND I AM ALSO SPEAKING LOUDLY, BANANA!-

I'm not going to get involved with a debate about this topic. So all I'm going to say is this. I believe in God to the fullest and nothing or anyone will change my mind, let alone question myself about that. So you believe what you want to believe and I'll do the same .

00biohazard wrote:

I´m neither a butthurt religious person

I hate those kind of people.

Jill Sandwich wrote:

I'm not going to get involved with a debate about this topic. So all I'm going to say is this. I believe in God to the fullest and nothing or anyone will change my mind, let alone question myself about that. So you believe what you want to believe and I'll do the same .

If you were brought up somewhere else in time or geography your quote would be "I'm not going to get involved with a debate about this topic. So all I'm going to say is this. I believe in (Allah/Zeus/Juju/Ahura Mazda/Shiva/Fairies/etc. etc.) to the fullest and nothing or anyone will change my mind, let alone question myself about that. So you believe what you want to believe and I'll do the same ." I implore you to question your own beliefs as much as possible. That is the only way we as people may grow.

If your godforsaken European ancestor pirates wouldnt have raped my lands and killed my people, and whitewashed them with the lies of the white jewish saviour, my country wouldnt worship the christian god in the first place. I believe in god, but not mankind´s definition of it. The rest, the church, the crusades, well, you just have to do a little reading on that dontcha? (in Forest Gump´s voice) and that´s all I´ve got to say about that.

00biohazard wrote:

If your godforsaken European ancestor pirates wouldnt have raped my lands and killed my people, and whitewashed them with the lies of the white jewish saviour, my country wouldnt worship the christian god in the first place. I believe in god, but not mankind´s definition of it. The rest, the church, the crusades, well, you just have to do a little reading on that dontcha? (in Forest Gump´s voice) and that´s all I´ve got to say about that.

Are you talking to me, or Jill? Trust me, I know about the Crusades.