Lost in Nightmares

Ok, allow me first to say that I may be in the minority with my opinion on this but, to me, Resident Evil 4 signaled the downfall of my favorite game series ever. The series basically changed from survival horror to action.

Now, with that said, Resident Evil 4 was fun as is Resident Evil 5, but neither brought with them the suspense and creepiness of their predecessors. Until, Lost in Nightmares that is. I believe that Resident Evil 5 could have been the best in the series if they had followed the same "recipe" they used for Lost in Nightmares. To me, the building suspense and lack of overwhelming hordes of enemies is far more creepy than one big shootout. I miss the puzzles and to a certain extent Lost in Nightmares brought them back as well. I'm still kinda iffy about the team concept, while it is fun to co-op with friends, it takes away from the almost hopeless feeling that going it alone presents. Teamwork and co-op I can deal with... But this is Resident Evil. What happened to dark environments, sinister and twisted enemies (not just bunches of them or extremely big ones) combined with dark orchestral musical accompaniment. Lost in Nightmares actually had my heart pounding at certain points, something that I haven't experienced from a Resident Evil game since the REmake for Gamecube. I would personally like to see RE6 go back to the survival horror feel that made the series popular in the first place and I think the formula used in Lost in Nightmares is a good foundation to start.

Like I said, I may be in the minority with my opinion but would like to hear input from other hardcore Resident Evil fans.

Your right after RE4 the action game type feel started to grow stale. Fixed camera angles and classic controllers however remained popular.

I completely agree with you. RE4 and 5 were great games, but they aren't true Resident Evil.

Bring back survival horror!

RE4 was better than RE5 though.

Jamesy wrote:

RE4 was better than RE5 though.

not imo.re4 was great and all that but for me re5 is just that bit better

RE5 was about as much fun as a partly submerged dead aligator.

Jamesy wrote:

RE5 was about as much fun as a partly submerged dead aligator.

now now jamesy im not saying re5 was the greatest because it isnt but dont take away the fact that its still a good game.. yes it had its bad points but so does re4

RE4 was a bit over the top at times, more like a comedy then a horror game. RE5 took itself way too seriously. The complete opposite to RE4 in that sense.

Jamesy wrote:

RE4 was a bit over the top at times, more like a comedy then a horror game. RE5 took itself way too seriously. The complete opposite to RE4 in that sense.

I'll agree with you about 4... Being chased by a giant statue? Really?

BOBLATHON wrote:

Ok, allow me first to say that I may be in the minority with my opinion on this but, to me, Resident Evil 4 signaled the downfall of my favorite game series ever. The series basically changed from survival horror to action.

Now, with that said, Resident Evil 4 was fun as is Resident Evil 5, but neither brought with them the suspense and creepiness of their predecessors. Until, Lost in Nightmares that is. I believe that Resident Evil 5 could have been the best in the series if they had followed the same "recipe" they used for Lost in Nightmares. To me, the building suspense and lack of overwhelming hordes of enemies is far more creepy than one big shootout. I miss the puzzles and to a certain extent Lost in Nightmares brought them back as well. I'm still kinda iffy about the team concept, while it is fun to co-op with friends, it takes away from the almost hopeless feeling that going it alone presents. Teamwork and co-op I can deal with... But this is Resident Evil. What happened to dark environments, sinister and twisted enemies (not just bunches of them or extremely big ones) combined with dark orchestral musical accompaniment. Lost in Nightmares actually had my heart pounding at certain points, something that I haven't experienced from a Resident Evil game since the REmake for Gamecube. I would personally like to see RE6 go back to the survival horror feel that made the series popular in the first place and I think the formula used in Lost in Nightmares is a good foundation to start.

Like I said, I may be in the minority with my opinion but would like to hear input from other hardcore Resident Evil fans.

Okay, allow me first to say that RE4 didn't start the fall of anything. RE4 was great, as a game, commercially, critically, and as an RE4, hands down.

RE4 and RE5 had their creepy environments, music, and their suspense as well. Both had puzzles, and all of the other great things.

Gameplay wise, it wasn't that different, at all really. On the whole, in just about ever way, it played like previous titles, and the minor changes, were also seen previously in the series, RE3, Survivor, Outbreak, etc.

RE4 wasn't just pulled out of Capcom's ass, it utilized elements from all throughout the series. Like any other games, RE4 & RE5 had it's cons, just like RE2, RE3, and everything else.

I was horrified 6 years ago when I saw the first official screenshots for RE4 in a magazine.

Jamesy wrote:

I was horrified 6 years ago when I saw the first official screenshots for RE4 in a magazine.

lol why jamesy. it turned out to be a great game didnt it.jamesy we all need to move on from the old camera angles

How do you know capcom are not planning to bring back the old camera angles in RE6?

[/quote]Okay, allow me first to say that RE4 didn't start the fall of anything. RE4 was great, as a game, commercially, critically, and as an RE4, hands down.

RE4 and RE5 had their creepy environments, music, and their suspense as well. Both had puzzles, and all of the other great things.

Gameplay wise, it wasn't that different, at all really. On the whole, in just about ever way, it played like previous titles, and the minor changes, were also seen previously in the series, RE3, Survivor, Outbreak, etc.

RE4 wasn't just pulled out of Capcom's ass, it utilized elements from all throughout the series. Like any other games, RE4 & RE5 had it's cons, just like RE2, RE3, and everything else.[/quote]

Like I said, I'm in the minority.

RE4 was too far a departure from the main storyline for me. In fact, the only reason I would accept it as a RE title is the commonality of characters from previous titles. In all honesty, the creepiest thing about Resident Evil 4 was the breathing patterns of the Regenerators. Never once did I feel a sense of urgency or panic or fear. It was fun, just not what I want out of a RE game. At least 5 had Wesker, Chris, and Jill which is a big win on the nostalgia scale for me. I've been playing RE since the beginning so those three (plus Barry and Rebecca) have a special place with me so I allow a little more forgiveness to games they are in.

I was waiting for the store to open to take RE4 home with me, I took it home, started playing it and was so dissapointed I turned it off and didn't pick it up to finish it for a month, I chose to instead play REmake and Zero just to get back into what I thought RE should be and continue to be. I know things have to evolve to avoid becoming stale and stagnant but in my opinion RE4 was a DE-evolution.

RE4 was a great game in all other aspects, wonderful gameplay, PHENOMENAL graphics. Commercially, yes a great game that brought many more fans to the series. Critically, yes again, well recieved.... That doesn't change my opinion though. Hell, I may haved loved the game if it were called anything but Resident Evil. But I'm a storyline kind of guy, and I want my zombies, my T,G,Progenetor Viruses... I want Umbrella to be the enemy.

To me it just seemed like Resident Evil 4 was geared more towards selling copies (of course, it's good business after all)
than giving the HARDCORE fans what they want.

One other reason I don't like it very much..... Well, I have never been the biggest Leon Kennedy fan in the first place.

Again, these are my opinions and just wanted the opinions of others. I guess I'm like the old guy just clinging on to the way things "used to be"

Scary music? I dont think I remember any... Environments... Rusty stuff... Its getting old, and monsters... Hmmm... Most people will just say ugly not creepy...

IMHO

More action oriented games.

It used to be bloody icon. It is icon nowadays too, but not like it was before.

Have to agree, its all business now.

Boblathon wins. Very valid, strong argument. Probably one of the best I have seen against RE4, and technically RE5 as well, though you admitted to giving it leniency. I hold the same beliefs as you. I think RE6 may be the game that makes or breaks the series to most diehard Resident Evil fans. It could be the gaming equivalent to the "Fonzie jumped a shark" moment in media history.

Well one things for sure - we will not be getting our hands on RE6 for some time to come.

Jamesy wrote:

Well one things for sure - we will not be getting our hands on RE6 for some time to come.

Roger that, sir. But my kids will be old enough to play it with me, that's a plus.

I'll truly be disappointed if we don't get a dose of more survival horror from Capcom with the Resident Evil franchise to be honest.

They could branch off a new series for the action games, that would be fine with me. :]

Of course, the arguments won't ever end. sadly. Argument being "Survival Horror vs. Action".

frodomir wrote:

Scary music? I dont think I remember any... Environments... Rusty stuff... Its getting old, and monsters... Hmmm... Most people will just say ugly not creepy...

IMHO

More action oriented games.

It used to be bloody icon. It is icon nowadays too, but not like it was before.

Have to agree, its all business now.

Well I never said scary music... Just those low ominous strings, they really gave it a dark, cryptic feeling. They were done so tastefully that it wasn't ever overpowering, just enough to add to the overall feel of the game.

As for the environments.... The lighting effects on REmake were just flat out amazing. The flickering candles messing with the shadows, the lightning strikes that literally had the effect of changing the overall "view" of certain rooms. That really added a sense of anxiety to it.... Kinda kept you on your toes as nothing was overly static, something was always moving. The lighting effects would sometimes startle me if I caught a shadow moving out of the corner of my eye. I mean it would give me that split second sense of urgency like; "Is that an enemy? Nope, just a shadow, calm down."

In my opinion, you can have the scariest plot imaginable but it becomes bland if the visuals and soundtrack aren't there to back it up.

BOBLATHON wrote:

Like I said, I'm in the minority.

RE4 was too far a departure from the main storyline for me. In fact, the only reason I would accept it as a RE title is the commonality of characters from previous titles. In all honesty, the creepiest thing about Resident Evil 4 was the breathing patterns of the Regenerators. Never once did I feel a sense of urgency or panic or fear. It was fun, just not what I want out of a RE game. At least 5 had Wesker, Chris, and Jill which is a big win on the nostalgia scale for me. I've been playing RE since the beginning so those three (plus Barry and Rebecca) have a special place with me so I allow a little more forgiveness to games they are in.

I was waiting for the store to open to take RE4 home with me, I took it home, started playing it and was so dissapointed I turned it off and didn't pick it up to finish it for a month, I chose to instead play REmake and Zero just to get back into what I thought RE should be and continue to be. I know things have to evolve to avoid becoming stale and stagnant but in my opinion RE4 was a DE-evolution.

RE4 was a great game in all other aspects, wonderful gameplay, PHENOMENAL graphics. Commercially, yes a great game that brought many more fans to the series. Critically, yes again, well recieved.... That doesn't change my opinion though. Hell, I may haved loved the game if it were called anything but Resident Evil. But I'm a storyline kind of guy, and I want my zombies, my T,G,Progenetor Viruses... I want Umbrella to be the enemy.

To me it just seemed like Resident Evil 4 was geared more towards selling copies (of course, it's good business after all)
than giving the HARDCORE fans what they want.

One other reason I don't like it very much..... Well, I have never been the biggest Leon Kennedy fan in the first place.

Again, these are my opinions and just wanted the opinions of others. I guess I'm like the old guy just clinging on to the way things "used to be"

RE4 wasn't a huge departure from the series, it just took place six years later. We have been jumping further with every game.

RE4 didn't have any panicy moments? What is the difference between a Hunter in the REmake, lunging at you with it's critical attack, versus the Doc in RE4 swinging his chainsaw at you while yelling? I don't see one at all. RE4 had plenty of scary moments, the first time I barricaded myself inside a building and could hear all of the ganados banging on the doors trying to break it down, or turning around to see a chainsaw in my face, definately panicy moments. RE4 had tons of great scares, but everyone is getting so caught up in complaining about it, and trying to segragate it from the rest of the series, that they forget all of the good times, while only highlighting it's faults. Not to mention only talking about the good stuff in the previous games.

The fact that RE4 was highly acclaimed has no bearing on my opinion, or on any facts. I am definately a storyline guy, I play them primarily for the story, but why can't it be for story and for gameplay. Furthermore, what was wrong with RE4's story? RE4's plot with Las Plagas was cool, but the great thing was The Organization and it's operatives, the "third party" that was involved in that whole situation, Krauser, Ada, Wesker, not to mention the Luis being tangled in there.

What is Umbrella? Umbrella is a company, but obviously the villians in the series have just been the operatives of that company, Al, William, Nicholai, Marcus, Ashford's, etc. We can only fight to finally take down Umbrella once and for all, so many times, before it just gets routine. I love T, G, T-Veronica, T/G, and all those great things, but I enjoyed Las Plagas too, and it isn't the first time a parasite has plagued the series, as RE3 had Nemesis, which of course was used with the Nemesis Parasite. No one complained about him, shooting you wtih a rocket launcher, or Nicholai shooting you from the chopper...

RE4 wasn't geared towards selling more copies...I doubt anyone knew it woudl be as succesful as it was, in fact, I bet that all the people that are complaining about RE4, wouldn't be in the same seat, had RE4 not been as overpopular as it was, but that is over, all of the people that loved RE4, and never played anything else, have moved on to their next quick fix, and the ones that fell in love with it there, have integrated into the RE fanbase, and the others that have been fans of the series well before, have already played and enjoyed it.

How can you individually point out RE4 as being over the top? Farfetched...how about James Marcus coming back(via Queen Leech) a decade after he was killed, or a plot with the Ashford twins that is right out of an Alfred Hitchcock film? Not to mention CVX had so many over the top action scenes, dual wielding, among many other things. Even the soundtrack is more action packed than RE4.

Umbrella is over, not coming back, although by the end of RE4, it seemed like it was coming back, although it was changed for some lame Uroboros story...

Umbrella lives on through the BOWs, the terrorists, the antagonists we see, the protagonists too.

RE5 was great because of the whole plot with Chris, Jill & Wesker. Unfortunately it felt half-assed with Sheva, and a crappy voice for Wesker.

RE4 had had tons of great, scary enemies, with a great entrance, and a great death, just like the previous games and enemies. It still has blood and gore, some language, etc.

As for the enemies, is there a problem with Ganados or Majini, or rather just Las Plagas infectees? Not only are they similar to our Nemesis, but let's not forget that they are are more classic than RE's classic zombies. The original zombies, back in those old movies like White Zombie, had a guy who controlled the people and gave them orders, they didn't turn into rotting flesh, brain eating, walking dead beings, until much later.

You mentioned the soundtrack, I don't think RE4 or RE5 were lacking in that department, not in the least. RE4 had those great ominous sounds and some other great tracks, including the theme from the credits, Sorrow. RE5's score was even more amazing, it was up there with the best of the best, RE0 & Outbreak. Alot of RE5's tracks were also very familiar with some of the older tracks. Like a track that I believe was taken from Outbreak, another track that is remixed from RE3(when you try to save Jill, either as Carlos with the vaccine, or as Chris taking off the apparatus), as well as certain parts that sound reminiscent to Code Veronica.

RE4 was a great game, a great RE game, and certainly didn't start some sort of downfall, the only negative impact was it's temporary overpopularity, of the game and it's protagonist. I will admit that RE6 will most definately make or break the series, it lays on the edge of a knife, and Capcom can really ruin what we have. RE5 was great, but alot of it was really horrible, the chapter where you are in a humvee on a mounted gun the entire time, including that horrific boss fight, not that it was scary, but how horribly not fun it was. As well as taking out iconic features such as the typewriter, and implimenting stupid control schemes for the FPS fans...although if you use Type A it plays like RE4, which is good.

Wow, Spike.... EPIC response.

RE4, to me, just had the feeling of "selling out", to ME being the key word there. This in turn effected RE5. If people like it, they like it, It just wasn't for me. I equate it to a band that has one specific type of sound, but on one album they depart that sound for one song, be it a ballad, acoustic etc and that song becomes their most popular. What happens MOST of the time? Their next album is nothing but ballads, acoustic etc... they completely abandon their original fanbase to sell more records (again, why not, it is good business).

I said before RE4 and RE5 are fun games and I eventually learned to love them for what the are... fun Action games. I just miss the survival horror genre all together. Dead Space is the only recent one I have played that actually made me feel like I did when I was 12-13 years old and first discovered Resident Evil. I used to love opening a RE game just dreading the scares I was sure to get... I just don't get that feeling with the games anymore.

But in all honesty RE4 and RE5 not once made me jump, feel a sense of urgency, panic or anything like that, It just didn't have that classic feel to it. I not downing them or boycotting them, Hell, I have about 120 hours in RE5. Man, I bitched about the Dawn of the Dead Remake cause the zombies run in it. I hate it when things I love change in such a drastic fashion. I guess I'm just a diehard "ghoul" type zombie made popular by Romero, (not a big fan of "The Serpent and the Rainbow" type). If it has Resident Evil or George A. Romero on it, I'm down regardless of the outcome, haha. Give me a minute to reply in full to that response... I'm gonna have to analyze that novel you just wrote before I offer up any more counterpoints.

Oh, RE5 did have a good soundtrack. However, kinda felt like I was watching BlackHawk Down at times.

RE5 was a going through the emotions afair.

pm for you jamesy

BOBLATHON wrote:

Wow, Spike.... EPIC response.

RE4, to me, just had the feeling of "selling out", to ME being the key word there. This in turn effected RE5. If people like it, they like it, It just wasn't for me. I equate it to a band that has one specific type of sound, but on one album they depart that sound for one song, be it a ballad, acoustic etc and that song becomes their most popular. What happens MOST of the time? Their next album is nothing but ballads, acoustic etc... they completely abandon their original fanbase to sell more records (again, why not, it is good business).

I said before RE4 and RE5 are fun games and I eventually learned to love them for what the are... fun Action games. I just miss the survival horror genre all together. Dead Space is the only recent one I have played that actually made me feel like I did when I was 12-13 years old and first discovered Resident Evil. I used to love opening a RE game just dreading the scares I was sure to get... I just don't get that feeling with the games anymore.

But in all honesty RE4 and RE5 not once made me jump, feel a sense of urgency, panic or anything like that, It just didn't have that classic feel to it. I not downing them or boycotting them, Hell, I have about 120 hours in RE5. Man, I bitched about the Dawn of the Dead Remake cause the zombies run in it. I hate it when things I love change in such a drastic fashion. I guess I'm just a diehard "ghoul" type zombie made popular by Romero, (not a big fan of "The Serpent and the Rainbow" type). If it has Resident Evil or George A. Romero on it, I'm down regardless of the outcome, haha. Give me a minute to reply in full to that response... I'm gonna have to analyze that novel you just wrote before I offer up any more counterpoints.

Oh, RE5 did have a good soundtrack. However, kinda felt like I was watching BlackHawk Down at times.

Yeah, my writer told me I will get a nobel prize.

On a more serious note, what did RE4 sell out to? If anything RE5 could fit that description, but RE4, not so. RE5 had tons of action, but still had survival/horror, but I think it fair to label it "survial/horror/action". I will be damned if RE4 becomes labeled "action", as it isn't, and it is a shame that people are still complaining about that one.

I think that is total bull about RE4 & RE5 not being scary at all. I personally never found any of the games in the series scary, nothing left me shaking in my boots...RE4 & RE5 have that same tension that the other games in the series had, and don't deserve to be segregated from the rest. I understand that change can be heard to fathom sometimes, hard to just get used to, but RE4 didn't change enough to warrant all of the hate.

Everyone always mentions Regenerators, but what about the Garradors, the chainsaw ganados, etc. The Novistadors had a perfect horror entrance in the sewers. RE3 introduced alot of action elements, yet I didn't hear anyone bitching about that one.

The lack of camera angles didn't start with RE4, in fact, they have been changing up since CVX, with moving camera angles, not to mention Dead Aim not having them at all. The ability to aim, that started in CVX with Alfred's sniper rifle, which also included duel wielding.

The dodging in RE4, no doubt a direct result of RE3's primitive dodge system. The manual reload, as well as the quick-knife are nice little additions, that add that extra convienence, just like RE3 introducing the 180 degree quick-turn. RE3 also introduced the explosive barrel.

The music in RE5 was pretty perfect I think, there were a couple of tracks reused from RE4, or rather they were remixed, just for the parts where you fight enemies, but then again, at RPD, there was a track reused from RE2 in RE3, and it sounds almost like it was remixed in the Ashford Residence in CVX.