Your honest opinion of Operation: Raccoon City

ohmybasch wrote:

PAULSAMSON wrote:

ohmybasch wrote:

No disrespect but some times it's like you're trying to justify every little plothole and thing in the RE universe.

Yeah, in Outbreak File 2 there is a possibility that the police car at the end of the scenerio is not Leon and Claire's. It's still not fully clear when Jill, Leon and Claire and Delta Team were in that station. There's no way that Marvin is a super human who can resist the t-virus, fell unconscious for 2 or 3 days whole, actually survived while asleep, you would think zombies would try to break in from some place, and then magically wake up to Leon there. If his body was able to do that then we got ourselves another Alice.

ORC is 99,9% non canon, even the Birkin Lab makes no sense

I know, thank you!
My brother was pissed off about that too.
Also weren't the Umbrella Soldiers fighting Birkin in a sewer in RE2? but all of a sudden he's in this random laboratory?

In re2, when Hunk's team kill Birkin. they're in the lab where Claire makes the vaccine....that lab had nothing to do with that "thing" that they called lab in ORC

PAULSAMSON wrote:

ohmybasch wrote:

PAULSAMSON wrote:

ohmybasch wrote:

No disrespect but some times it's like you're trying to justify every little plothole and thing in the RE universe.

Yeah, in Outbreak File 2 there is a possibility that the police car at the end of the scenerio is not Leon and Claire's. It's still not fully clear when Jill, Leon and Claire and Delta Team were in that station. There's no way that Marvin is a super human who can resist the t-virus, fell unconscious for 2 or 3 days whole, actually survived while asleep, you would think zombies would try to break in from some place, and then magically wake up to Leon there. If his body was able to do that then we got ourselves another Alice.

ORC is 99,9% non canon, even the Birkin Lab makes no sense

I know, thank you!
My brother was pissed off about that too.
Also weren't the Umbrella Soldiers fighting Birkin in a sewer in RE2? but all of a sudden he's in this random laboratory?

In re2, when Hunk's team kill Birkin. they're in the lab where Claire makes the vaccine....that lab had nothing to do with that "thing" that they called lab in ORC

There you go, it's not canon and it makes no sense!
Now we can all relax and know that ORC is in fact major BS.

I will still take ORC as canon. It might not be fully canon but you know, I don't care. Neither are the Chronicles games but they're still counted partly as such. At least they did a nice job of not mixing with too much. Still, I take it as officially canon as they said so. It's not like they're cahnging the world history here, they are just adding storyline to a fictional videogame.

The fact that you just so happen to hate the game does not change my mind nor does it change what is a fact.

Oh, and so what if I want to justify the plot elements? I feel better when stuff makes sense. Marvin was still uninfected in Outbreak, got infected somewhere in there, was found injured by Jill on 28th and woke up on 29th to be found by Leon and to be killed by the virus. Exact time is not known so it could be pretty much anything.

Mass Distraction wrote:

Marvin was still uninfected in Outbreak, got infected somewhere in there, was found injured by Jill on 28th and woke up on 29th to be found by Leon and to be killed by the virus. Exact time is not known so it could be pretty much anything.

Really, when the player himself has to speculate things like this just because the actual developers didn't bother to fix that detail, it proves that you're only "justifying" the lazy writing in the developers part, that's what I mean.

It's like you'll let anything slip by just because it's Resident Evil, just like some Skyrim or Fall Out Players will accept Bethesda releasing games that freeze up near the end and then defend them against the other players who are complaining about it and the only thing they want is a game they can actually finish.

For me, I want an RE game that COMPLETELY explains the Outbreak and doesn't leave anyone speculating and or confused.
If you want to consider ORC canon, fine, go ahead. But the point is not if it's canon or not, it's if it all makes sense in the end without leaving people to speculate. If Capcom really wants to finish the RE series, they need to start by filling in all the plot-holes so even the simplest minded gamers can understand.

Get my point now Mass?

I dunno, it has alwasy been the appeal of RE to me that they leave stuff hanging. I like to speculate on stuff. This is nowhere near comparable to game breaking bugs that won't let you finish the game.

Besides, about Marvin, I thought it was pretty self explanatory what happened to him. In Outbreak the RPD is overrun by zombies on 28th and Marvin gets infected. RE3 is still happening in the 28th and the station has been abandoned by the time Jill gets there. Marvin had not even been infected for too long as the day turns to 29th and Leon gets there, Marvin wakes up and dies. It was all in the games so at that part there wasn't even anything that needed to be filled.

To be honest, I think Capcom has delved too much in the outbreak as is. Still, that's just me. It's just that we already have 8 games, a CG movie and a three part radio drama depicting the nights not to mention all the suplmenetary material there is.


tl;dr? Yes, I do get your point. I understand that you might want to learn more but I'm fine just how it is. Hopefully, for fans like you, they decide to make something more explanatory on the nights at some point along the line.

To be honest, im only taking some of the Nicholai stuff as canon.

My queries are;

Is there two hospitals in Raccoon City? Otherwise, Carlos wouldn't have gone and made the Vaccine for Jill in that hospital as Nicholai blew it up. Aside from it being totally different in size, its next to the cemetary, and the park from whats seen, and the clock tower.

Then the labs are totally different the rats in the sewers carried the virus upto the streets. Birkins transformation was pretty much instant in ORC, whereas USS got out of the labs and then into the sewers which took abit longer whichis bing picky. But it all happened in the sewers and ORC for those who never played the original RE games would be left wondering, how did it get out of the labs?

Otherwise I dont consider any of it really canon. I mean Kendo's gunshop was in the totally wrong place, most of raccoon city was totally changed so.....

The DLC trailer is out;

youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3D-xfmrCzRjeQ%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded

Basically, it looks like they are merely using the locations from ORC main game; Spec ops fight USS, City hall.... but a nice look at sherry birkin.

Mass Distraction wrote:

Besides, about Marvin, I thought it was pretty self explanatory what happened to him. In Outbreak the RPD is overrun by zombies on 28th and Marvin gets infected. RE3 is still happening in the 28th and the station has been abandoned by the time Jill gets there. Marvin had not even been infected for too long as the day turns to 29th and Leon gets there, Marvin wakes up and dies. It was all in the games so at that part there wasn't even anything that needed to be filled.

No, it still doesn't make sense. In the beginning of RE3, Jill says "September 28, Daylight, the monsters have overtaken the city. Somehow, I'm still alive." This is telling the player that the outbreak has been going on for a while. Here's were it get's dumb though. In RE2, we can encounter Brad as a zombie, so this tells the player that Jill was before Leon and Claire in the station. So if she was before them, and the zombies had "over run" the city already, WTF didn't Leon or Claire hear about this on the news? Do they not own a radio or a television? There had to be someone covering the Outbreak.

fernandofan08 wrote:

The DLC trailer is out;

youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3D-xfmrCzRjeQ%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded

Basically, it looks like they are merely using the locations from ORC main game; Spec ops fight USS, City hall.... but a nice look at sherry birkin.

It's really free? Hah, they all better be or I'll just explode of fury

Mass Distraction wrote:

I will still take ORC as canon. It might not be fully canon but you know, I don't care. Neither are the Chronicles games but they're still counted partly as such. At least they did a nice job of not mixing with too much. Still, I take it as officially canon as they said so. It's not like they're cahnging the world history here, they are just adding storyline to a fictional videogame.

The fact that you just so happen to hate the game does not change my mind nor does it change what is a fact.

Oh, and so what if I want to justify the plot elements? I feel better when stuff makes sense. Marvin was still uninfected in Outbreak, got infected somewhere in there, was found injured by Jill on 28th and woke up on 29th to be found by Leon and to be killed by the virus. Exact time is not known so it could be pretty much anything.

There's no comparision between ORC and Chronicles in terms of "most canon", ORC makes no sense

fernandofan08 wrote:

The DLC trailer is out;
youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3D-xfmrCzRjeQ%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded

Ooh thanks ! Can't wait for something new to play in ORC. Getting quite tired with Versus and Campaign.

mission 1 is free

I wouldn't get too much into cosmetical differences because even RE2 & 3 had differences with the city.


@Basch: Wouldn't that just mean the outbreak could have begun late 27th or just early 28th? The city was also placed into quarantine really early on so maybe there was just no way of broadcasting the stuff? Anyway, it's not like I really care. If you want to hate on the plot holes then go for it.

The outbreak started on the 26th. RE3 waa on 28th and ended on the 29th. The last RPD stand happened on the 27th before officers fell back like the UBCS. Thats why Jill was on her way out of the city, because comms went down when everyone died.

US army was in raccoon city as evident by the dead soldiers in the hospital, park and dead factory. Government wouldnt want outside interference or mass panic so it was kept hush until it was nuked for containment

fernandofan08 wrote:

The outbreak started on the 26th. RE3 waa on 28th and ended on the 29th. The last RPD stand happened on the 27th before officers fell back like the UBCS. Thats why Jill was on her way out of the city, because comms went down when everyone died.

US army was in raccoon city as evident by the dead soldiers in the hospital, park and dead factory. Government wouldnt want outside interference or mass panic so it was kept hush until it was nuked for containment

Makes a bit sense but it's still a huge mess up because if there was an outbreak, and from what we see in RE Outbreak officials start to block out roads to the city, so it still doesn't make sense for Leon and Claire to arrive there without knowing something fishy was going on. But whatever you guys want to believe. I'm just saying, there's a lot of confusion within the RE games.

Like in CV, supposedly Claire is looking for the whereabouts of Chris who's "missing" yet there's a scene where she's on the computer emailing Leon so that HE can contact Chris. So if Leon knew where Chris is, why didn't Claire just ask Leon where he is BEFORE she got herself kidnapped -_-

Don't get me wrong, I love RE, but there's just too much WTF going on to ignore it.

Leon doesnt know where Chris is. She asks him to find him and contact him as she was close but got imprisoned. Leon has connections with the government remember so he has quite a few sources

How the hell did Leon and Claire enter the city if it was in quarantine

PAULSAMSON wrote:

How the hell did Leon and Claire enter the city if it was in quarantine

Didn't you know? You can enter Raccoon, but you can never leave...

Well I always thought it was stupid running around RE3's horribly rendered city which felt like going through tons of hallways with a simple urban city tileset, lame. I thought it was stupid though, because if I were Jill there, I could easily climb over a few things blocking off streets and get my happy ass out of Raccoon City before it got blown up.

That's something I kinda liked about Apocolypse, that scene where all of the people were trying to leave, and they ended up cutting off that exit since people were infected there. They shot at the civilians and made them go back. That was an interesting take on it.

Spike991 wrote:

That's something I kinda liked about Apocolypse, that scene where all of the people were trying to leave, and they ended up cutting off that exit since people were infected there. They shot at the civilians and made them go back. That was an interesting take on it.

It sure was, that was one of the only parts of that movie that I found interesting.....because a shitty Nemesis and the Alice character sure as hell don't interest me.

Spike991 wrote:

PAULSAMSON wrote:

How the hell did Leon and Claire enter the city if it was in quarantine

Didn't you know? You can enter Raccoon, but you can never leave...

Well I always thought it was stupid running around RE3's horribly rendered city which felt like going through tons of hallways with a simple urban city tileset, lame. I thought it was stupid though, because if I were Jill there, I could easily climb over a few things blocking off streets and get my happy ass out of Raccoon City before it got blown up.

That's something I kinda liked about Apocolypse, that scene where all of the people were trying to leave, and they ended up cutting off that exit since people were infected there. They shot at the civilians and made them go back. That was an interesting take on it.

Come on, thats an unfair criticism. The PS1 only had 2mb of RAM and just 5kb of data cache! There was no way the PS1 would allow that sort of thing.

RE3 was in the center of the town, you had uptown and downtown. Crashed cars, police barricades and fire blocked most of the streets and accessibility. Essentially a free roam was not capable on the PS1, GTA on the PS2 did free roam, but it was still of limited detail.

But even in Outbreak, it showed there was various ways in and out of the city. Main roads might be blocked from stopping people from getting in, but the less known side roads wouldnt be, would there be the man power to even do it? I mean, RPD was slaughtered trying to hold the outbreak back, i bet there would only be a single army barrack, theyd be out in the streets and you saw them in the dead factory and hospital for example.

So much went on in Raccoon City but much of it isn't explored. Raccoon City is isolated in its mountainous region.

From how its implied, RE3 started on the 28th didnt it? Jills evacuating because the city is lost and she now knows it. So obviously it must've started late at night on the 26th when it became an epidemic, the night of the 27th was the last ditch resistance of the RPD, and the 28th was when Jill knew it was a lost cause. When she is unconcious from Nemesis and carlos makes the vaccine, RE2 happens, and the end of RE3 is the last of raccoon city.

Outbreak
Outbreak #2
Resident evil 3 upto the clock tower
Resident Evil 2/Carlos making the vaccine and waiting for jill to come round
Resident Evil 3 Park/cemetary/dead factory.

Claire, Leon and Sherry exit the train tunnel before Raccoon City is nuked and its very early morning. Barry rescues Carlos and Jill in the early morning too but they watch the city get nuked as Claire/leon/Sherry i assume are a fair distance away from Raccoon City going on the train tracks and the distance.

Sargent D wrote:

Spike991 wrote:

That's something I kinda liked about Apocolypse, that scene where all of the people were trying to leave, and they ended up cutting off that exit since people were infected there. They shot at the civilians and made them go back. That was an interesting take on it.

It sure was, that was one of the only parts of that movie that I found interesting.....because a shitty Nemesis and the Alice character sure as hell don't interest me.

I thought the 2 guys Oded Fehr and Zack Ward did well as the UBCS guys tho....they did, regardless of what the script had them doing tho, if you get me

Mass Distraction wrote:

fernandofan08 wrote:

RE3 waa on 28th and ended on the 29th.

Actually RE3 ended on October 2nd.

Yeah i was wrong, it was October 1st it was nuked.

''Another viral outbreak involving the same virus occurred two months later on September 22, 1998, when Umbrella attempted to retrieve a sample of the powerful G-virus from William Birkin, one of its more reclusive researchers. After he was shot multiple times, Birkin was left mortally injured and, knowing its regenerative capabilities, injected himself with a sample of the G-virus that the Umbrella personnel sent to retrieve didn't take. Unfortunately, its mutagenic properties overtook his humanity and transformed him into an unstoppable mutant, killing machine. He destroyed the paramilitary team which had attempted to steal the virus from him, and in the process, vials containing the t-Virus were dropped, releasing it into the sewers. The t-Virus was then carried by rats throughout the city, leading to a full-scale outbreak. By the 24th of September, the city was in total chaos.



Recognizing a "incident", Umbrella officials called for an evacuation of the city, placing high priorities on key, essential members. By dawn of September 25, U.S. Army units were called in to evacuate citizens and began setting up barricades around the city's perimeter, effectively enforcing a quarantine of the city and preventing people from entering. The military was ordered to only maintain the perimeter, and was not authorized to enter the city and assist the police. To avoid mass panic, the rest of the nation was told that radioactive waste had been leaked throughout Raccoon City, forcing a quarantine. The Raccoon Police Department tried and failed to contain the hordes of zombies created by the t-Virus, using barricades, heavy force and in some dire instances, explosives to destroy entire streets.



Matters were not helped by the actions of Police Chief Brian Irons, who attempted to trap officers and civilians within the police station, scattered weapons and ammunition around the building and cut off communication to the outside.The police station itself was besieged on September 26. The officers then made a last attempt to destroy the zombies in the streets near the Johnson National Bank on September 27, but failed when their road block were overrun by hordes of zombies. The survivors within the RPD's main precinct on Ennerdale Street held off the zombies for days until only three living officers remained: chief Brian Irons; Marvin Branagh, and another, unnamed, police officer. Umbrella also sent in several Umbrella Biohazard Countermeasure Service (UBCS) platoons for search-and-rescue missions on the 26th and the 27th, which ended disastrously for the survivors.The supervisors of these squads were also secretly tasked with gathering field data about Umbrella's bio-weapons as well as destroying any incriminating evidence. Two US Special Forces units deployed into Raccoon City to secure the G-virus and other key Umbrella chemicals were quickly anihilated by a pack of rogue Hunter βs and a team of T-103s, respectively. By September 28, only a handful of UBCS mercenaries were left alive, who would help Jill Valentine to escape.

By September 29, nearly everyone in the city had either been killed by the monsters and bio-weapons released from Umbrella's laboratories, or had succumbed to the t-Virus and become zombies. The military barricades surrounding the city had begun to fail in some places, allowing unwary visitors such as Leon Kennedy and Claire Redfield to enter the city, and allowing some of the city's few survivors to escape.

Destruction

On the night of September 30, Raccoon City was in ruins and overrun with mutated monstrosities. The majority of its populace was dead, the police and SWAT annihilated. The US government was faced with the realization that the t-Virus would soon escape the city, overrun the perimeter and spread across the entire country, infecting millions of people. This, as well as the massacre of Special Forces units by B.O.Ws and the belief that there weren't any people still left alive, prompted the President and Congress of the United States to declare Raccoon City a lost cause and to order the "sterilization" of the city immediately. The order went forward despite attempts by Umbrella operatives within the government to delay the strike


Taken from the REwikia.

I made a mistake too. I deleted my last message that said October 2nd and was going to post it again with October 1st but you got here first

I'm not interested in playing this game at all, well maybe if someone gave it to me but i wouldn't buy it.

Sargent D wrote:

Spike991 wrote:

That's something I kinda liked about Apocolypse, that scene where all of the people were trying to leave, and they ended up cutting off that exit since people were infected there. They shot at the civilians and made them go back. That was an interesting take on it.

It sure was, that was one of the only parts of that movie that I found interesting.....because a shitty Nemesis and the Alice character sure as hell don't interest me.

Yeah I liked that part, a moment in the RE movies where some of the plot in it made more sense than the games.

I won't be buying this for a while just because of all the random bugs and glitches that are supposed to be in it Plus i'll be getting it on PC but is the game really as bad as everyone is saying it is? I know its being given lots of negative reviews because either its to short or the AI is retarded or other things that cause playability to be unusable.

I did love the ARG they did in preparation for the game but after seeing more footage and seeing Nemesis use a gatling gun...well it put me off.