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 Degeneration: hate it or love it?

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Spike991
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RaviorStygian
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Mass Distraction
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RaviorStygian
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 28, 2011 5:16 pm

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

I'm in the same camp as Nite and Mass.
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ThomVD
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 2:20 am

I'm with GL. Change is good but changing the whole genre is too much (like I said before, if they changed zelda in a turn-based RPG, would the fans like that? No.) RE4 and 5 should've been spin-offs.

Resident Evil made survival-horror popular.

RE4 and 5 = 0% Survival, 0% Horror and please don't say RE4 was scary because it wasn't. And the checkpoint system is just stupid and killed the last bit of survival that was left.
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Mass Distraction
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 5:00 am

What people see as "survival" is still debatable.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 8:56 am

Mass Distraction wrote:
What people see as "survival" is still debatable.

Well, every game is technically survival. You must survive to find the princess, defeat ganon, stop Dr. Wily, Escape from zombie infested cities. Every game is survival. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 8:59 am

But the survival in survival-horror is different for me. A game is survival if the only objective in the game is: survive. In RE4 you're send to find the presidents daughter, that's no survival.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:20 am

Find the daughter AND survive, to be exact. I hope the next game is horror with the gameplay we have now. Something similar to LiN, perhaps. Then everybody would be happy.


Last edited by Mass Distraction on Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:20 am

ThomVD wrote:
and please don't say RE4 was scary because it wasn't.
Well, neither was any of the other games either. Razz They had jump scares, sure, but they were never genuinely scary.

And in RE4 you still have to survive. If you didn't, you would get a game over.

EDIT: Yeah, Mass said it:

Mass Distraction wrote:
Find the daughter AND survive, to be exact.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:25 am

The find the president's daughter part makes it not survival. In all other RE games, once the first cutscene ended, you only had to survive. In RE4 you searched for the presidents daughter. That's not survival. Also the ridiculous amount of ammo and healing items and the inventory capacity took away all the survival that was in the game.

And LiN had gameplay of the old RE games, just the camera angle of RE4/5. People often confuse gameplay with controls and camera.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:28 am

ThomVD wrote:
The find the president's daughter part makes it not survival. In all other RE games, once the first cutscene ended, you only had to survive. In RE4 you searched for the presidents daughter. That's not survival. Also the ridiculous amount of ammo and healing items and the inventory capacity took away all the survival that was in the game.

But if Leon dies, you have failed to survive.
If Ashley dies, you have also failed to survive. (During the Ashley sequence.)

Also, have you played Pro mode? Everything that is good and decent seems to have fallen in quantity. Rather drastically, might I add. THAT, is Survival.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:30 am

I said the ONLY objective is to survive. In RE4 that's not the case. Fact.

Pro is easy. Still a shitload of ammo and healing items.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:32 am

ThomVD wrote:
The find the president's daughter part makes it not survival. In all other RE games, once the first cutscene ended, you only had to survive. In RE4 you searched for the presidents daughter. That's not survival. Also the ridiculous amount of ammo and healing items and the inventory capacity took away all the survival that was in the game.

And LiN had gameplay of the old RE games, just the camera angle of RE4/5. People often confuse gameplay with controls and camera.
You still had to survive the ordeal.

I meant to write "OR something similar...". Oh well. For me gameplay consists of the camera angles and controls combined. The camera angle pretty much determines how the game is played. Graphics and audio elements do not apply, of course.


ThomVD wrote:
I said the ONLY objective is to survive. In RE4 that's not the case. Fact.
It shouldn't matter what other objectives there are in game. Different objectives give different story elements, which I find interesting.


@The Knife: I'm sure Thom has played the Pro mode Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:36 am

I think a game with the OTS view with the old RE gameplay: scarce ammo and supplies, puzzles, slow pacing, zombies, etc. (REmake does the best job at almost all of those things IMO) would be cool I guess. I still don't get why people want OST so badly. The camera angles fits RE much better.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:40 am

RE5 on anything other than normal or easy has quite a bit of survival. One smack to the face with a shovel will shave off a lot of health in Veteran.

By the way, if RE3 has an over the shoulder perspective and controlled exactly like RE4 and 5, that would pretty much be an action game right there. It would be the same game, except you could see from behind Jill. There was less puzzles and a lot more ammo in that one.

Wait, there's a lot of ammo in every RE game . . . hm . . .

No really, there is. There's enough ammo to kill every enemy and boss and still have some left over. Even on hard mode in REmake I was never out of ammo and had plenty.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:41 am

ThomVD wrote:
I think a game with the OTS view with the old RE gameplay: scarce ammo and supplies, puzzles, slow pacing, zombies, etc. (REmake does the best job at almost all of those things IMO) would be cool I guess. I still don't get why people want OST so badly. The camera angles fits RE much better.
I don't mind what the camera angle is (was is OTS or classic), I just want the game to be playable and have a good story. I do agree with the scrace ammo, though. Not every rat and spider have to carry ammo with them. I'd be cool with having to find your stuff. The enemies don't matter to me either, as long as they stay as BOWs and accidental infectees.

Agreed with Ravior. You do have plenty of ammo in every RE. It's just that not every enemy have to carry some.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:44 am

If you play an old RE game for the first time you can't kill every single enemy. You just dodge them and only kill what's necessary. In RE4 and 5 (even pro) you shoot everything you see with an easy camera angle and aiming system without having to worry about ammo. That just kills it for me. REmake is pretty hard if you play it for the first time on normal if you haven't played the original. RE0 is also very hard.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:48 am

I like to see what I'm shooting. I mean, the classic style is great and all (why else would it be called classic) and I never had any problems with it but I'd STILL prefer to see what's in front of me. Wouldn't it be cool to play through the game as is and then unlock the optional feature to use the classic camera?
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:49 am

It's much scarier if you don't see the enemies and still hear them. They made RE4 and 5 too easy to control because of the camera.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:51 am

Mass Distraction wrote:
I like to see what I'm shooting. I mean, the classic style is great and all (why else would it be called classic) and I never had any problems with it but I'd STILL prefer to see what's in front of me. Wouldn't it be cool to play through the game as is and then unlock the optional feature to use the classic camera?
That would be pretty cool actually. How about vice versa for the other games?
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:52 am

ThomVD wrote:
It's much scarier if you don't see the enemies and still hear them. They made RE4 and 5 too easy to control because of the camera.
You could still have it with the ots camera. It works in Silent Hill.


RaviorStygian wrote:
Mass Distraction wrote:
I like to see what I'm shooting. I mean, the classic style is great and all (why else would it be called classic) and I never had any problems with it but I'd STILL prefer to see what's in front of me. Wouldn't it be cool to play through the game as is and then unlock the optional feature to use the classic camera?
That would be pretty cool actually. How about vice versa for the other games?
Other games... like the originals?
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:53 am

The old silent hill games didn't have OTS. I haven't played most of the new ones.


Last edited by ThomVD on Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:55 am

ThomVD wrote:
The old silent hill games didn't have OST. I haven't played most of the new ones.
They didn't but the camera angle was free enough to see around. I never had problems seeing in front of me. The new ones do have ots but the enemies are sneaky and are able to surprise or attack in packs. Scary as hell. Most of the time you can hear them, even if you can't see them. the next thing you know you are getting raped.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 9:58 am

SH isn't RE. SH is more atmospheric scary and RE more jump scares. And SH was all foggy and that made it scary.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 10:05 am

My point is that you can make a scary game in ots too.
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 10:06 am

Damn it, I now realise that I said OST instead of OTS Razz .
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PostSubject: Re: Degeneration: hate it or love it?   Degeneration: hate it or love it? - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2011 10:10 am

Oh yeah. I forgot the complete lack of an original soundtrack Razz
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